Robert Trout (00:01.357)
Hello and welcome to the Parent Problems Today podcast. Today it’s myself, Robert Trout and Paul Arradondo from the Parent Trainers Team coming with an episode to talk about a little bit about process, I think, when we’re working with families that are trying to figure out why what they’re doing isn’t working. And very often that conversation starts from somewhere where the parents have come up with some creative or forceful consequences.
to try to get their kids to wake up, learn, change their behavior, et cetera, but nothing’s working. So today we’re gonna go through kind of a process that every family needs to back up and look at and kind of assess themselves. How are they doing in this? And I think what we’re gonna call this is assessment before consequence, because very often consequences come as a knee jerk reaction.
Paul (00:41.166)
Thank
Robert Trout (00:59.287)
to whatever emotion the parent is feeling, depending on how bad the crime is, for lack of a better word. And let’s kind of look at this more in the scientific way of saying, OK, something’s happening. Why is it happening? So Paul, I’m going to pass it to you so you can kind of lay out the roadmap of assessment before consequence. And then we’ll get into some of the more kind of deeper feelings and process for the parent after that.
Paul (01:29.494)
Yeah, thanks Rob. Well, you the interesting thing that really stands out, what you’ve already said is, you know, we don’t want to be reacting to our kids. We want to be responding, right? And a good, healthy response comes from actually a good, solid evaluation and an assessment. Okay. Because we want to respond to their actions. We want to respond to their choices or their lack of action. Right. And so who’s your kid? Because when I think about, you know,
a teen or even an adolescent or gosh, a young adult who has pretty intense ADHD and their executive functioning is actually pretty low. That kid probably has a low self-esteem. That kid probably is receiving criticism on a regular basis. That kid is probably highly unmotivated. And if they continue to get browbeaten with some really intense consequences, like now you can’t have this, now you can’t have that, now…
this is restricted from you and you better change without any true support to help them create that change, to help them develop their executive functioning. We’re missing the boat. We’re actually not creating a healthy young adult. We’re not supporting them in evolving some of those skill sets that are actually learnable if we actually take the time. So when we’re talking about consequences, again, who’s your kid?
Is your kid the highly anxious one, the one who gets overwhelmed, the ADHD kid, or maybe it’s the kid who’s kind of run off the rails and out doing all sorts of substances. Cause that might be the kid that actually needs the reins pulled in, needs the restrictions. So who’s your kid? That’s the first step, right? Because when it comes to creating an opportunity for you to.
have healthy perspective around consequences, you gotta know who you’re dealing with. And it might change from kid to kid, even in your family system, right? So being able to have a conversation with your partner and other adults in your community and other people who are observing your behavior patterns of your child, that’s all assessment, okay? So creating that image and understanding like, this a mental health challenge? Are we working with somebody who again, is impulsive?
Paul (03:52.322)
Who doesn’t do time management well? Who doesn’t do task initiation well, let alone follow through or being able to understand beyond like one or two steps, maybe even as most of us struggle beyond three steps of a process. Are we overwhelming our kids? Where are they at developmentally? All these are interesting questions to sit with as you then think about consequences. So.
Yeah, I’ll pause there. What do you want to, because I mean, we can keep going, right?
Robert Trout (04:19.299)
Yeah, I mean there’s so many directions that this goes but really The first thing I want to go from from what you were just saying is looking at assessment itself Because too often we run into a situation where the parent says they’re doing this to piss me off and That’s as far as the parents gotten
Paul (04:43.64)
Mm-hmm. 100%.
Robert Trout (04:45.985)
It’s like, they’re just pushing back. They’re just, it’s like, okay, so let’s honor that there is a level of normalcy, especially if we get into the tweens and teens, it is absolutely age appropriate for them to push back against boundaries and structure and family processes. That is absolutely normal. And that parent is correct. But the assessment piece is not us saying, well,
Paul (04:58.595)
Certainly.
Robert Trout (05:15.073)
you know, let’s find a one button makes this all make sense. This is putting all the pieces together because let’s even get back up into mental health versus behavioral processes. Okay. So for the parent that’s listening to this, part of assessment is looking and saying, okay, mental health is typically not always, but typically driven by components within the biological system.
So we’re looking at neurological processes, chemical processes and release patterns from the brain or the body, the thyroid, the, I mean, you name it, everything in the body is trying to function. And sometimes that throws into, I’m going to say throws into effect these things where we can look at it from the outside and go, well, that that’s interesting that they’re trying that strategy or they’re not getting out of bed and they seem to be getting more and more depressed and why like nothing happened.
nothing triggered a lot of this. That’s one part of mental health is just the body’s trying to figure itself out and sometimes certain organs or brain patterns or things, they don’t develop into a typical, neurotypical or normative pattern where this person can look at their life and the expectations and the et cetera and say, I’m gonna handle it like I see everybody else handle it.
There’s a process happening somewhere in this person’s body that’s driven to a mental health process that they’re not developing a normative pattern of development towards problem solving, towards emotional regulation, towards relational connection. I mean, so many things get impacted by this. That’s the mental health aspect that we very often lean into.
when someone gets a diagnosis, very often that’s also tied to psychiatry or development of skills that allow them a different learning environment to develop patterns that will work for them with what they have to work with. Then we get to the behavioral health. This is very often tied to some mental health, but the behavioral aspect that we get into for a family to understand is
Robert Trout (07:39.253)
Sometimes this kid really is just not equipped to live within the system that they live in. This might be the family system, the school system, the friend system of the community, whatever it might be. And this person is literally learning behaviors to compensate for their feelings and their status in life or status within the family system or whatever it might be.
And this kid starts to act, you know, lot of parents like to say they’re acting out, but that it’s more like they are acting in a way to accomplish an internal goal. And that doesn’t mean that they have like something going on chemically or neurologically or et cetera in their brain. These are why they’re separate.
And yes, any parent that’s listening, sure, they can have a little of both or a lot of both. It could be a combination factor. But I just want to make sure the parent’s listening to this because when it comes to an assessment before consequence, this is a basic understanding. Like if there’s something neurological, chemical balance, like et cetera going on here, you taking away their phone for a week isn’t going to do a lot. It’s really not because
It’s not helping them change the internal world that’s impacting their ability to live in the external world versus the kid that is behavioral leaning in that pattern. In that case, taking the phone away for a week, it does have an impact and it shows them a consequence related to the decisions they made. But when we talk about assessment, let’s just back up to number one.
What is going on in these two categories because from there we can look and say, okay if it’s behavioral and we’re doing an assessment Let’s find the why let’s find the need that’s trying to be met or you know the goal they’re trying to accomplish etc in shape a consequence then around helping them figure out new ways better ways and more relational ways to connect and accomplish that goal versus
Robert Trout (09:58.273)
the other direction through mental health. I’ll pause there. Did I go too far? I know I just went down the rabbit hole. Bring us back a little bit, Paul.
Paul (10:06.986)
Oh my God, yeah. So we can get into the weeds and talk about the psychobattle. And the truth of it is we can simplify it down to willingness or capacity. When it comes to assessing your kid, is this a willingness issue or is this a capacity issue? Maybe it’s a little of both. But creating that perspective and
Robert Trout (10:12.113)
yes.
Paul (10:31.47)
cultivating and continuing to cultivate that perspective as your child ages up, as your child develops, as your child is exposed to things outside of the home, through the internet, yada, yada, yada, like growth, right? As your child continues to grow and from day to day, perspectives can change dramatically due to exposure to things. So being able to stay attuned to your child, that’s, you know, step number one, of course.
You know, we talk a lot about like staying curious and how to be curious and asking good questions without interrogation, you know, all those sorts of skills we can dive into. But coming back to how do you think about consequences? Because every single parent’s goal is to grow a healthy adult. Every single parent’s goal is to see their child be successful. Are we setting them up for that? That’s the question. Are our consequences shaping their success?
Or are they actually not giving them an opportunity to see themselves as successful? And so this is where, what you were saying Rob about, have to, man, it’s like a Rubik’s cube. You have to continue to play with it until it comes into alignment and create the space to have the conversation with your partner. And so I said at the beginning, these consequences need to be responses, not reactions.
And we talked about the lens of assessment from a broader perspective. And I actually want to hone it into the moment for a moment, just to kind of address this. I’m a huge fan and you know, I will strongly suggest don’t give a consequence in the immediacy of the action that your child has committed. Tell that child, Hey, that was beyond the boundaries and expectations, whatever version of language you need to express that in.
I’m going to go talk to your dad, go talk to your mom. We’re going to come back and talk about like what’s going to happen because of that. The one, the value of that is you get to go and calm down. You get to take space. You get to have some objectives, perspective with the support of a co-parent. And the added benefit of that is your child then gets to sit with, my God, I did something wrong.
Robert Trout (12:36.307)
Thank you.
Paul (12:54.08)
rather than, just gave me a crazy consequence and da-da-da-da. And then they’re just wrapped up in you being reactive to them. So them sitting with a lesson of, man, what’s gonna happen to me, is actually a really healthy thing. That discomfort creates the opportunity for more growth. And then you come back with a consequence. And sometimes them sitting in that discomfort is the consequence.
And so you can come back with something softer and actually build relationships. So here we are in the idea of strategy, right? How do you actually be with your child in a way that helps them understand, that was a thing that I need to actually rethink in a future moment that I need to plan how to do differently. And if we are less reactive in that moment, we can actually be a part of that conversation. So that’s the kind of in the moment piece. And I want to.
Robert Trout (13:35.757)
Yes.
Paul (13:48.846)
frame that around the idea of a teachable moment. Don’t see, don’t try and correct the behavior. Name the thing that happened, but don’t sit there and give them the lecture in that moment. Take the space from it. Have them sit in it. Because if you pile on, that can feel like shaming, right? And therein lies part of what we were addressing at the beginning of this conversation, which is,
How are you impacting your kid? What are you doing for that kid who’s ADHD and is just like, can’t, I can’t win. I can’t win. That depressed kid who’s already low motivation, who’s like, can you see that I can’t? This isn’t helping my motivation. And maybe they can’t even name that much, right? And so being able to, again,
Robert Trout (14:39.704)
Yeah.
Paul (14:43.416)
Think about it through this lens of assessment is this big picture who’s my kid and this like, okay, let me take a step back in the moment after I’ve had some, hey, I’m gonna notice, hey, you notice what you did? Okay, I’m gonna go game plan how we’re gonna come back to you. So that idea of creating that pause for yourself is healthy for your relationship with your child. You want to add anything to that part,
Robert Trout (15:08.837)
just one of the teaching techniques that have worked for a lot of families, that if you find yourself in a mom or dad speech, right, and you catch it, and usually a parent can catch it from one of the like, my God, I’ve said this a hundred times. Hey, hold on, hold on, I want you to hear my voice coming through the ether to you, hey.
Paul (15:17.644)
Mmm.
Paul (15:26.331)
Yeah. Yeah.
Paul (15:34.189)
Right.
Robert Trout (15:34.849)
You just said you’ve said this a hundred times. Guess whose problem that is. That’s not your kid’s problem. That’s yours. And very often that’s the cue for the parent to go, I’ve assessed this wrong. I’m trying to solve for X, but I haven’t thought about the Y. Right? And that, yeah, that’s a metaphor.
Paul (15:43.086)
100%.
Paul (15:58.19)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (16:03.585)
Hold on to that if you’re a listener to this. I’m trying to solve for X, but I haven’t thought about the Y. Go into the Y, the assessment piece of, I’ve said this 100 times and it’s made no difference. That’s your cue to understand that you’ve assessed this wrong. You’re creating consequences that have zero impact on your goal, not their goal, your goal of behavioral change.
or relational change or something to change within the family dynamic. If you’re at that point that’s your problem, you haven’t found the why and it’s time to reassess. We have to go to reassessment and figure out how to recognize why this is all happening. Now we can create consequences, boundaries and action steps.
that will be different than anything we’ve ever tried before to solve for the problem. And that’s where we see so much dynamic change in a family system is when the parent says, I got this wrong. Because sometimes they’re dying on the hill because of their pride. I know my kid. I know exactly why they’re doing this. And then when we get into the specifics of mental health, behavioral health, and all that kind of work, they go,
Paul (17:16.461)
my gosh, yeah.
Robert Trout (17:28.255)
I didn’t think about that at all. I was just doing what my parents did for me. I’ve heard that more than anything else from a parent is they reverted to what worked for them without recognizing the reality that their kid might be going through something they have no understanding of internally or externally. it’s that assessment. That assessment saves families. It really does.
Paul (17:33.006)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (17:47.747)
And that’s the Assumptive Trap.
Paul (17:55.682)
Yeah. Yeah. I think you nailed it Rob. That assumptive trap that a lot of families fall into and what it is born of is impatience and frustration and creating that opportunity to objectively take a step back with your partner or with the support of, you know, professionals or community members, what have you, like being able to have an objective opinion about like, all right, what’s really going on here can create
healthy perspective about what’s the next step. We talk about that a lot in terms of trying to support our kids and figuring out and helping them establish what is their healthy next step. And we have to do that same thing for ourselves. When it comes to caretaking, when it comes to, again, staying attuned to who our child is. Because if you think your child is that same 12 year old and they’re 15, miss the boat.
relying on a memory of who they were even six months ago, a behavior pattern of who they were three weeks ago, you still might be missing the boat, especially if they’re in that really tight age range where, developmentally, things are just popping and they are trying all sorts of stuff, right? And again, is that behavioral? Is that mental health? know, willingness, capacity? Take a step back.
have the conversations, you have some truth, your partner also has truth. It doesn’t mean either one of you are right. It means that you each have a piece of the puzzle. So therein lies part of the co-parenting dynamic in this that I want to really encourage is you don’t have the whole image and that’s okay. There’s nothing wrong with that. You might be spending 75 to 85 percent in your perspective anyway, time with a kid and
your partner, a community member, and so forth, they’re seeing something different. So being able to have that perspective. Go ahead, Rob.
Robert Trout (19:56.365)
Yes.
Yeah, that’s a lot of parents will say, well, where do I start? Interview your community, the teachers, coaches, grandparents. And sometimes it’s the acknowledgement that something is off, right? And I know plenty of parents that they feel some guilt and some process around all that where they’re like, well, you know, it’s taboo to admit that my kid is struggling. know, only my kid is struggling. Like all these traps.
that parents have fallen into. But very often step one of assessment is admitting that something is shifting in a direction that you really don’t like and saying, we need to get a handle on this. And I need that word, we. We isn’t just me and co-parent, it’s grandparents, aunts, uncles, other siblings. I can’t tell you how many times a sibling will later be like, yeah, I’ve known that for years. When a parent finally figures something that’s like,
Paul (20:38.638)
Yeah.
Paul (20:56.012)
Right.
Robert Trout (20:58.093)
What do you mean you knew that for years? yeah, you didn’t see that that happened every day before school? It’s like they live in the house. Interview and get information and data. That’s a part of assessment. And then very often when you get to the other side of consequence, it will involve the same people. You know, that the community is supporting this change process so that it’s not just on the parent. So.
I’m going to say if we’re going to move this conversation towards action steps, I’d say number one, get data from every source that you possibly can with an open mind, not just the data that’s going to support what you think. It’s like you want to know everyone’s perspective, and you’re just going to hold space for that without judgment and without trying to make it fit your version of the story. And sometimes that takes in.
Paul (21:38.144)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (21:53.422)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (21:56.651)
excuse me, an independent data person. Like sometimes you’ll get psychological testing because the tester will actually interview everyone that they can that they have permission to in that kid’s life. And that’s one of the reasons this is effective is that they get a big picture, a broad view picture of what’s going on, not just what the parent said, because let’s be honest, what you’re saying may not actually be the truth. It’s just your one angle or view on the situation.
Paul (22:08.333)
Right.
Paul (22:26.21)
Yeah. So let’s shift this a little bit to consequences, right? We’re talking a ton about like assessment and the view of, you know, objectivity and trying to take a step back for the sake of like, who’s my kid? And now you have to step back in, right? Now you have to actually engage your child. And from that understanding, let’s kind of break it up into like the willingness versus capacity piece, right? If we’re talking about a
Robert Trout (22:31.939)
Yeah.
Paul (22:55.278)
capacity, challenged, child, teen, young adult. Front-loading, having a conversation with them is all the more important. know, whether it’s executive functioning, depression, anxiety, bipolar, you know, what have you. You’re talking to a kid who is probably conscious that they’re struggling, probably aware that they maybe don’t fit.
whether it’s in the household with their sibling group and the social scene, they have some perspective. And especially as they get to that, like 12, 13, 14, those becomes so much clearer pictures. So when you’re talking about trying to support this child and creating healthy patterns, you got to get into the mix with them. Consequences actually are about your engagement at that point.
not like a highly pressured engagement. It’s more about, hey, let me get curious about where your challenge is in accomplishing this task and let’s game plan for that. What did it, and talk about like the skills that they’re trying to apply or teach them more skills or resource people to come in and talk to them about like what skills that they can learn if they’re not willing to hear from you, which is the case with lot of teens. So the idea of consequence, especially if a kid struggles with school is you get them a tutor.
Right? You don’t ground them. You don’t like take away their technology. You get them more support. Right? If they’re skipping school, I mean, now we’re talking about behavior challenges, right? But you know, again, if we’re thinking about capacity, the kid who cannot clean their room and their room is a mess, it might be that they’re so overwhelmed they don’t know where to start. You might need to get in there with them and say, hey, let’s just focus on the laundry.
Robert Trout (24:23.448)
hehe
Robert Trout (24:31.294)
Hahaha
Paul (24:49.024)
and gather the laundry, put it in the basket, help them do it. Don’t do it all for them. Don’t rescue them. Right. We’re not talking about getting in there and doing it for them. We’re talking about sometimes these kids need to have a nervous system that they can bond with and mirror in a dynamic to understand how to do something in a healthy and paced way. And so, you know, being with them is part of the process of them learning. Right.
And so part of also the consequence would be, Hey, we’re going to have another conversation about that. And again, that’s support. You want to add anything to that row?
Robert Trout (25:28.237)
No, I think we can move a little more into the steps after that.
Paul (25:34.712)
So as we think about consequence and as maybe we see it as a capacity issue and we might still see a lack of movement and we need to assess, again, take a step back. What is it that you’re missing? Maybe there is another clue that you just haven’t seen in terms of maybe they’re not eating really well. Maybe they just don’t have the energy. Maybe we need to go back to the
Basics like how are they doing with sleep? You know because sometimes the consequence is you know, hey We got to get you to have a healthy sleep routine and I’m taking the technology and we’re tightening it up that way Right like limiting the distraction limiting the over stimulation because especially with the ADD kid don’t give them that caffeine Right. Don’t give them that sugar, you know, like they there’s so many interesting basic solves that will help them on the back end
around behaviors that you’re seeing, whether it’s impulsivity, distractibility, have you. So think about this as a holistic view when you’re talking about consequences with this sort of kid. Do you want to add to that, Rob?
Robert Trout (26:47.607)
Yeah, it comes into the mental health versus behavioral process as well. Like really, really hone in on why a consequence is necessary. And then ask yourself, what do they need to learn? Not from your frustration. What do they need to learn for their life to develop a skill to be better at self-maintaining?
Paul (26:53.262)
Totally.
Paul (27:09.442)
Uh-huh.
Robert Trout (27:17.003)
whatever they’re impacting in their life, whether that be relationships or accomplishing a goal or school or whatever it might be. When it comes to consequences, don’t just make a consequence. Make a lesson. Anything you can do to teach them at the same time is going to advance progress towards your goal of not having to deal with this anymore.
Paul (27:44.406)
huh.
Robert Trout (27:45.331)
sometimes parents miss that completely. They just want their kid to suffer so they never do this again and they completely miss the opportunity to get the kid advancing towards a level of competency. And sometimes that’s the best consequence is a natural consequence or a developed consequence towards education versus trying to make them feel bad.
Paul (28:11.202)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (28:13.887)
about what they have done. That is not the goal. And please, I’ll say it again, that is not the goal. And I know some parents go, what do mean that’s not the goal? They’re supposed to feel bad. No, they’re supposed to understand that the way that it happened before was not effective and that you would like that to change so that this doesn’t become a long-term problem or something we have to deal with a hundred times.
Paul (28:16.206)
Yeah, and I love
Paul (28:36.779)
Exactly.
Paul (28:44.258)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (28:44.761)
That’s the goal and sometimes we have lost focus on that. So if you’re a parent hold that for a second because sometimes you’re the problem not them because you’re focused on the wrong ending.
hold space for that. And if that’s true, then educate yourself and it’s time for you to change so that the situation can change. Because sometimes we’re just in a repetitive pattern and we’re a part of that. We’re in it with them.
Paul (29:17.294)
100%.
Let’s make that actionable. What you’re trying to do is, I love the word education. I’m going to put a twist on that and say, you’re trying to support your child in building insight about their situation so that then they can be empowered to create change for themselves with your support, right? Especially if it’s a capacity issue. So what does that look like? It doesn’t look like you sitting down and saying, you see that you struggle with this, right? You know that this is a problem for you, right?
It’s actually, hey, how’s that feel for you? What’s going on for you in those moments? I see, I do see you’re struggling. What’s that struggle feel like? What do you notice? What are you recognizing as a thing that gets in the way? Is it focus? Is it overwhelm? it, you know, and so through your curiosity, you’re actually helping them self assess. You’re developing a skill with them and for them to support themselves in a future moment.
When we’re talking about creating change, change doesn’t happen without the capacity to have self-reflection. Nobody changes unless they know that there’s something wrong. If they can’t point out the thing that’s wrong, then they don’t know what to change. So I think, again, when we’re talking about consequences, if we’re just being heavy-handed, the kid’s like powerless in it. They’re like, I’m not sure what I’m supposed to be doing here. And then they get to the F-its, right?
Robert Trout (30:43.0)
Yeah.
Yep.
Paul (30:47.138)
They just get right there and they’re like, well, I can’t win for losing. So it is about supporting them in their process of understanding themselves in a better way. You know, and if you don’t know those questions, come to us. We got lots of good ways to engage kids and curious with them about what it means to, you know, understand the internal dialogue that they’re having.
Robert Trout (31:03.326)
yeah.
Paul (31:12.364)
the sensations that are going on in their body, all the resistance and the withdrawal they’re experiencing, the isolation behavior patterns, the way they might be fighting back in a moment because they’re just trying to have some sense of control or safety. All of those things we can address, we can talk about, we can get curious about, we can soften for the sake of them seeing themselves as capable, them seeing themselves as having a way to shift this thing that you’re uncomfortable about, that
they’re certainly uncomfortable and maybe even confused about, and ultimately creating that space for a bigger conversation and then to actually feel supported, not railroaded. So yeah, any fine touches on the capacity or the, yeah, the capacity side of things, Rob?
Robert Trout (32:02.369)
No, I think you got that well covered.
Paul (32:05.39)
Okay, so I want to toss it to you. What about the willingness side of things and the behavior?
Robert Trout (32:13.645)
So the behavioral side, the willingness side of this is really going to be tied to, at least in my experience, it’s very often anchored in relationship. And when we look at natural development for tweens and teens, they’re entering that age of individuation, creating space from the parent so they can go test themselves in the real world. And some parents are really scared about that.
Paul (32:24.974)
100%.
Robert Trout (32:39.693)
but this is a natural process that if you impede that, you can make things far worse in the future. But that’s a whole other podcast. Getting into just this of willingness, there’s an element there of like, you do have to work on your relationship with this kid and then translate that through these developmental years, tweens, teens, that kind of level of transitioning from parent to mentor.
to one who witnesses the rise and fall and is there to educate and support and direct, but not the person that’s like the hammer. We’re not looking at like keeping them in track. We’re looking at them, letting them go off track, figuring out that that didn’t work and then coming back and moving through life. And that transition is extremely important.
But when we look at this as far as assessment and consequences, apparent, transitioning to mentor, et cetera, we’re looking at willingness through the angle of why should they listen to me?
really it. Why should they or why would they listen to me? And if you don’t have a good answer for that, then I guarantee you they don’t have one either. So very often, you know, that might be a whole other podcast by itself too, but we’re looking at that element of saying, okay, if this is behavioral, the answer, the consequence direction, everything is relational.
It just is. You have to develop a meaningful connection and sometimes that’s about recognizing what’s naturally occurring for them and bringing in other people to be the point people. They will be the people that take the brunt of the like shape and direction because you as a parent don’t get to choose the inner personality of your child. You know, that’s the whole like
Robert Trout (34:46.411)
Roll the dice when you decide to have a kid because I want a kid just like me. Well, sometimes that’s a nightmare And other times it’s just like Wait a minute. Hold on. You understand that’s not how it works, right? Like they’re being influenced and developed and like exposed to different chemicals and processes and communities and thoughts and ideas and social media and all these things that make them into an individual and
Paul (34:53.24)
Yeah
Robert Trout (35:14.179)
You have to develop a way to be with that individual outside of who you wish they were going to be or who you expect them to be and start recognizing during that age, you know, 13, 14 through 17, like in there, they’re trying on so many hats. Who am I? What do I believe? How am I going to operate in the world? How do I problem solve? All these things are happening naturally.
Paul (35:33.527)
Uh-huh.
Robert Trout (35:39.755)
Sometimes the main issue there behaviorally is that the parents not giving them space to do that or they’re trying to make it that there’s only one thing you can be to be accepted or loved by me. The parent doesn’t often think like, I’m gonna do this. This is very subconscious. So it’s the parent recognizing this pattern and saying, okay I’m gonna break that for me. Again, your work, not their work. Your work as a parent stepping into that.
I’d say if you’re on the behavioral side, get ready for some relationship work.
Paul (36:15.948)
Yeah. And that’s not to say you’re like letting go of boundaries and right. You’re letting go of expectations. It’s actually the clarity of those boundaries and expectations, which are in direct relationship to your ethics and your values, right? Check in on that when you’re trying to lay down boundaries and expectations, make sure you can answer the why, right? We talked about that earlier.
Robert Trout (36:21.93)
no.
Paul (36:41.582)
not only your why about what the consequences are, but why are you even holding the boundary in the first place? Why are you even holding that expectation in the first place? If you cannot explain that clearly to your child, you know, is it in relationship with your ethics and your boundaries, or is this just about control because you have a lot of fear and anxiety, right? And one of the things that I will take a step back and talk about is oftentimes the anxiety of the parent creates more construction than the child actually needs.
So thinking about that idea of, you know, hey, is my child learning important lessons or is this truly a safety issue? Are they getting themselves in physical harm? Emotional challenge is part of life, right? They need to actually build that capacity to be resilient in the face of something that’s uncomfortable. That’s life. Are you even holding them back from that with your boundaries and your expectations? So
You know, Rob, you said you got to kind of let them go a little bit. You got to give them a little bit of a leash, you know? And of course, when we’re talking behaviorally, we might be kind of pulling that leash as we see some behaviors and kind of reeling them in a little bit. And again, to what degree? Right. And so when we talk about behavioral consequences, we’re talking about how tight do I need to actually hold the guard rails or the bumpers on the bowling lane, so to speak, you know, and to make sure that they’re on the right path, you know, and
Often we talk about restriction to things or we talk about, you know, removal of the opportunity to have impulsivity. mean, especially if you got a kid who is into substances and is exploring all those things, get the alcohol out of your house. All right. Don’t have anything in your space because that’s a recipe. Right. So are you taking care of your environment? That’s first step.
right, when it comes to being a behavioral challenge and like holding that sort of lens of things. Are you then, what’s your handle on the immediate environment in terms of assessing where they’re spending most of their time, be it their friends, be it corner store, be it park, be it, you know, what have you. And you might have to pull them back and teach them like, hey, that culture isn’t one that’s gonna, you’re not gonna gain long-term benefits of that.
Paul (39:06.968)
Right? And again, those are conversations away from the moment where you’re saying, Hey, you can’t go to hang out with that kid anymore. You let that land and then you circle around later to have the conversation of, Hey, why do you think that kid is somebody that I’m like holding some boundaries with? What’s that about? What do you think? Where do you think that’s coming from for me? Rather than falling into the lecture. Right? And so that’s the conversation and that’s the relational part.
bring them into the conversation rather than lecture to them. Right? And that’s how the consequence becomes more of a lesson, becomes more of a, hey, this is a collaborative conversation. Of course, I’m the parent, I’m going to hold things and we’re going to normalize the fact that we talk about things like this. And they’re going to push back and they’re going to be resistant. They’re going to shut down, especially if you try this and they’re already teens, right? That doesn’t mean it doesn’t work. It means you’re going to sit there in silence as you wait for them to answer the question.
Robert Trout (39:38.818)
Yes.
Robert Trout (40:05.987)
Yep. Yeah. There’s a little irony to this too, and what you were just saying that as a parent, if you start to implement these plans, expect it to go bad first. Okay? Like the number of parents, I tried that and it didn’t work. How many times did you try it? Once. Nope. You’re have to try it 30 times, 40 times, and then you’ll start to see change. This, for their side and your side, is a learning process.
Paul (40:06.336)
And that’s OK.
Paul (40:17.806)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (40:25.229)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (40:35.683)
The first time you say it you’re gonna say it with some tone that you don’t realize you have and that’s why it didn’t work and the second time same thing and then on and on until You set the stage where you both are acting differently because it’s different now You create the change through practice over time. So There’s some irony in that because it is difficult on both accounts and
as a parent, please don’t expect this to be simple because none of it will be.
Paul (41:08.718)
And gosh, reach out, talk to your community, talk to us, talk to somebody. Again, objectivity, that’s the first step and that’s going to get you through as you feel like you’re stumbling and it’s not working. Right. And so get the support, get the scaffolding, talk to your community, especially your co-parent. As you said, Rob, extended family, like circle the wagons, especially if it’s a behavioral challenge. So.
Robert Trout (41:23.169)
Yep.
Paul (41:38.062)
Creating that space for them to understand, this is coming from love. This is coming from this vision of support and wanting you to be the healthiest, most successful version that you can be.
Robert Trout (41:49.635)
Absolutely. All right. Closing thoughts. Anything we missed?
Paul (41:55.982)
I mean, gosh, we can just keep digging through the weeds. I don’t know. Yep. Yeah.
Robert Trout (41:57.891)
This will be a four-hour podcast if we keep going. All right, well we’ll we’ll try to summarize a lot of this into maybe some other episodes that get a little more specific on things But but I I’m gonna say if you’re a parent listening to this Assessment is so important leading into consequences with a plan consequences without a plan are just punishment and
Paul (42:22.626)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (42:26.2)
Yeah, you are responding to them, not reacting to them.
Robert Trout (42:29.131)
Yeah, and that’s and that is the problem again, and this is hard for so many parents Who think my kids the problem they’re not listening. They’re not acting. They’re not changing as Parent trainers we’re gonna back you up a step and say you’re participating in that loop Like you want them to change you change first That’s just how this works when it comes to mental health behavioral health all of it
Parents go first in the change process and then things can start to maneuver and adapt and evolve into something new. But if you expect the 12 year old to lead the charge of change, you’ve already lost. You just have. So this is in part about personal responsibility, being the adult in the situation.
and recognizing that whatever is happening is a family process, not an individual process. And I think that would be my closing thought. Paul, you got anything?
Paul (43:38.008)
Yeah. Wherever your family is at, not all is lost. I can imagine the parent who’s like, my God, I F’d it up. my God, how did I get here? my God, I’m not going to be able to reel it back in. And come back to the foundation of relationship. Come back to the foundation of, okay, I need to start responding. Okay, let me just do assessment. Let me just start with assessment and take it step by step. So.
Yeah, recognize the pattern for what it is. It’s okay. Change is possible. Change is always possible. It’s workable.
Robert Trout (44:17.581)
Yes.
All right, well, as always, please come find us at parenttrainers.com, join one of our live trainings that roll throughout the year, join the community and talk to other parents and us and just work on yourself as you need that support. And don’t try to do this alone.
