Robert Trout (00:01.825)
Hello and welcome to Parenting Problems Today. My name is Robert Trout and I’m here with Paul Arredondo. Both of us are members of the Parent Trainers Community. And today we’re coming to you with a topic that comes up for everybody. And this is going to be a general conversation touching on something from our holiday special where we talk a lot about the idea of co-regulation being the first part.
but then really looking at what we keep calling calming techniques. And these are techniques for parents to consider looking at not only teaching your children how to regulate and calm themselves through anxiety or an overabundance of emotion or whatever it might be that’s going on for them, but more importantly, a reminder to every parent listening to this, you need to calm down too.
It is amazing how often this comes up in the sense of parents venting and looking at the struggles that their kids going through or the conflict that the mental health process is having in the family system without recognizing that they themselves are a part of the total energy of what’s going on in that family system.
Paul (01:10.294)
You
Paul (01:26.53)
you
Robert Trout (01:27.371)
So if you’re a parent listening to this, this is a non-judgment conversation, trying to normalize the idea that you are the parent, you are in a position to regulate your children to you, and to understand that during the process of going through struggles, those are the opportunities to teach your kids. They are witnessing you practice
whatever skills you might possess in order for to calm emotion down to a level that some kind of function or change can be achieved in the scenario and this is a simple conversation but it’s also not a simple conversation because so many people relate to this statement when you’re in it you can’t see it all you agree with that you
that idea like, okay, this person’s inside of the situation and when you’re inside, you can’t see it. What comes up when you hear that, Paul?
Paul (02:36.629)
another statement very similar, is, your kids know your buttons.
to push. And in fact, they’ve probably installed the majority of them, right? And so it’s hard to actually, as you said, Rob, step outside of it and understand the patterns and the dynamics. So, I mean, gosh, we often talk about assessment as like the first step into any sort of change. so creating that opportunity for you to have a conversation with your partner and if it’s a teen or a young adult, have a conversation with them and say, Hey, I think we have this pattern.
Robert Trout (02:45.01)
Hahaha
Paul (03:13.676)
Right? Because unpacking the pattern is the first step in changing things. But that’s another discussion because we’re here to talk about how do we calm down? How do we slow a moment down? How do we come back into being present enough to have a conversation? Right? Because it’s hopefully, you know, the ideal and Rob, we talk about this a lot is, you know, if we can be in a mutually receptive state of being more, the majority of the things that we ever struggle with are workable.
if we can have a conversation. It’s when people escalate. It’s when people struggle to stay calm. It’s when people become defensive or anxious or fearful, where they do that controlling sort of nature and whatever version of that is for them that disrupts the idea of collaboration, of coming together, of understanding, of clarification. So calming, slowing down is the first step. So let’s dive into it, Rob.
Where do you want to start?
Robert Trout (04:13.601)
Yep. Well, let’s start with this idea of co-regulation because it’s come to my attention recently that some people don’t understand the full concept of this. what I’d like to do is offer a metaphor that I teach co-regulation as a concept to professionals and parents alike. It’s this idea of follow the leader. And for the listener, the idea is that
You as the parent show up in any scenario you can imagine with your kid. And if you can change your mindset to, need to yell at this kid, I need to get them to understand, I need them to change their behavior, or I need them to calm down because they’re already escalated, or they’re already to such a depth level of depression or isolation or whatever it might be, co-regulation becomes a game.
and it’s follow the leader. And it’s this idea that when you show up, instead of showing up with your tactical approach of saying, I’m going to say this, I’m going to scream this, I’m going to whatever it is, because you’re showing up with some kind of energy. The first thing I want this individual to do is show up and say, OK, I want to get them to a place that they can process this conversation, that they can reflect.
Paul (05:21.014)
you
Robert Trout (05:37.153)
that they can emote with me and see the process of me connecting with them is important. So follow the leader becomes the understanding in the concept of this game of I’m going to get them to the same level that I am. Okay, but here’s the trick. It’s a game. They’re playing too. So your kid is already angry or escalated.
Paul (05:46.733)
you
Robert Trout (06:06.443)
They’ve chosen their starting position in the game. They’re going to try to get you to come up to where they are. Because if you’re yelling at them, they win. Let that sink in for anyone listening to this. Is you have now regulated to their state of being by them, you know, what Paul was saying, the buttons, they pressed the right button, said the right thing.
to get you out of a centered place into a place that matches where they were. So we’re really looking at this game of saying, they’re here and I’m here. And if I’m showing up regulated and ready to play this game, I’ve chosen my starting position in the game. So if you can take this concept and this metaphor of the game,
As a parent, co-regulation is the understanding that they can come to where you are, but you have to help them get there. You have to take them from the place they’re starting the game to the place that you both can be regulated enough to learn from each other. I’m gonna pause there, Paul, any feedback or ideas that come up around that metaphor? Have I missed anything with that?
Paul (07:27.75)
I think the only thing I’d add to that, Rob, is the recognition that
How you show up, you know, in order to convey your position is really important, right? You know, like our presentation, even our approach. And what I mean by that is, you know, if you are walking into a conversation, are you stomping your way into the conversation? Because the kid is already impacted by you, right? If you’re stomping down the hallway, you’re banging on the door, if you’re walking quickly, or if you’re
You know, come into the room quickly. You know, the idea of co-regulation is let them know that they’re safe with you. Cause if you project that this isn’t going to be about like getting into an argument, like you, if you’re not conveying that energetic or that presentation or the affect that you’re halfway there. Right. Because then that lets them know that it’s safe for them to put their defenses down. Right. So when we’re talking about code.
co-regulation, what we’re really creating is an opportunity for your child, your loved one to feel safe. So present as relaxed, present as non-attached. And one of the things you said, Rob, is like, watch out for walking in within an agenda. Cause they see it, they feel it, right? They know your patterns of communication, right? So create the space for that opportunity to change the story.
Okay, because you’ve been having so many interactions with them. They know who you are. They believe they know who you are. Right.
Robert Trout (09:05.143)
Well, there’s also a clarity for a lot of parents who are practicing the skills that we teach of recognizing that you can either show up to win the game by being the most powerful, loudest, most feared, most etc. Like, you show up with this like, I will be heard about how upset I am. That could be your goal. Absolutely. That could be your goal is that your kid
understands how upset you are. But if you’re practicing this centering parenting, if you’re practicing this grounded work, it’s about getting to that place of saying, what I’d really like is for this behavior to change, or our relationship to get better, or et cetera. So I have to change my approach because the goal of showing up that I will be heard how frustrating this is,
Paul (09:51.214)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (10:03.251)
Absolutely, you can get that result or you could do the work to long-term change the behaviors and practices and work as a family so that this doesn’t become a long-lasting issue or a really heavily impacted mental health process or Honestly a devastating pattern for your long-term relationship with each other There’s so much to understand about your showing up
Paul (10:27.381)
Certainly.
Robert Trout (10:32.587)
being that like, okay, you know, in our work, we talk about step one, step back and assess them, but regulate yourself to figure out what goal you’re trying to accomplish. Now, if you go in guessing or without a plan, this is never gonna go well. So there’s that grounded approach saying I stepped back, I see where they are. Where do I wanna start this game?
There’s the key to knowing what you’re about to do. And that’s where we get into these aspects of, I’m going to say calming down because in that stepping back, you’re usually already triggered. All of us are. we, we’re, we backtracked. We’re somewhere else. And as a parent, that kid, maybe press the big red button, which is now where you are.
But if you can witness that, they pressed the button. They’re trying to take me there versus where I would like this to go to change this so that maybe we don’t have to work through this anymore. That we kind of work ourselves out of the behaviors and patterns that we’re in so that we don’t have to feel this way anymore about this thing. Whatever it is, this scenario, this behavior, the feelings that are coming up, I want to work my way out of that.
So step back, assess, and ground into, OK, here’s what I’m about to do. I have a plan. I have the skills to back up that plan. And here we go. So today’s conversation really is about you’ve stepped back. Now what? How do we calm down? And this serves two functions for the listener out there. The two functions this serves is one, you are practicing.
what works for you to regulate and calm down. That’s one. Two is your child’s gonna witness you doing it and begin to understand that this is something that’s important to the life skill for communication and relationship development over time to work through their emotions. Very often, if you start a breathing exercise, and let’s just start there and then we’ll get into some other things, but let’s just look at breathing for a minute.
Robert Trout (12:58.113)
There are so many practices that people can do. And it’s been proven over and over again that if you start a breathing pattern and start to regulate, the people around you unconsciously start to breathe in the same pattern that you do. It just happens. We’re literally, our mirror neurons are firing and bringing it together where it’s like, okay, we are living off of each other’s patterns and the breathing techniques
As long as you make them visible enough in the practice, they’re easier for the people around you to pick up on. And it’s one of those things that in a large group, have a hundred people in a room and you have one person stand up and start talking. And then they pause and they’ll say, let’s take a deep breath. And then without conscious thought, everyone takes a deep breath. It wasn’t even a decision because at that
point it was a reminder that hey you need to breathe. So if we look at those kind of reactions breathing is an excellent starting point for calming down as long as you find what works for you. And I guess what I’ll do is step into the most common the most common one I’ve heard of is called box breathing which is where the person takes four count breath in holds for four seconds.
breathes out for four seconds and holds for four seconds and then continues. Now, just one quick note on that. That’s not always true. Actually, I have learned recently this amazing technique in neuroscience that looks at box breathing and it turns out that everyone’s box is a different size for calming down. So if you’re out there and you’re one of these people that are trying to practice breathing and four seconds out,
four seconds hold, four seconds in, four seconds hold isn’t working for you or maybe raises your anxiety, then maybe you have a bigger box and you need to go to six seconds at each point through the process. But building your box is an excellent breathing technique to calm and regulate the nervous system and to allow yourself time to think and
Robert Trout (15:16.585)
just witness and do the assessment part of what’s going on outside of you because your brain is focusing on the act of breathing, holding and counting and giving you that process of regulation through that. So build your box would be step one for me of just looking at it. And I know so many people have heard of breathing techniques and there’s so many more. It’s not do this one. It’s
You need to find what works for you for the regulation that you’re trying to attempt or to achieve. Paul, what do you think about that? What comes up that you’re aware of?
Paul (15:56.017)
Yeah, I’ll throw out one more breathing technique that’s coming up for me because, you know, when you’re in conflict with a loved one, they might not be taking direction very well in that moment. And so sometimes the best thing, as you said, Rob, is to do an act of breathing because then they’ll join in.
And we can do something that creates and generates a pause to slow the moment down by, you know, really being thoughtful. And so it might look like, you know, turning your gaze up and pausing and looking thoughtful and taking a big inhale.
and then slowly exhaling.
and still kind of looking around processing and then go, okay, so, and re-engaging in the conversation. And that pause and that act of using your breath can actually trigger them, just as you said earlier, Rob, subconsciously to do the same. And that simplicity can make it accessible. So the idea of taking a big inhale and a slow exhale, there’s kind of a rhythm of like,
If your inhale is three seconds, your exhale is six, but don’t get too caught up in the counting. It’s more about just like a slow exhale, because what that does is it communicates to your nervous system that you’re safe. It communicates to your neurology that it’s okay for your heart rate to slow down. It’s okay for your blood pressure to drop. It’s okay for your shoulders to relax. So when we’re actually doing the slow exhale, we can again demonstrate
Paul (17:39.242)
as well as invite them without having to say cue them. Because again, if they’re agitated or if you’ve tried this before, they’re going to be like, don’t you tell me to, you know, and so, so how do we, you know, as you said earlier, Rob, like game the system a little bit, right? So this idea of calming them down is by modeling, but also taking that deep breath for yourself. And you might have to take like one or two, and it might be something like, you know,
Robert Trout (17:56.791)
Thank
Paul (18:09.996)
Well, I was thinking, well, hold on a second.
Huh.
And then you step back into the conversation because it also communicates. You’re being thoughtful. You’re taking in information and that pause, gosh, that pregnant pause is so valuable to keep the temperature dropped down in the room. Right? So this idea of slowing thing down, slowing things down is literally calming things down and it communicates safety. I’m going to keep coming back to that throughout this conversation is like, we’re trying to generate safety.
Robert Trout (18:32.949)
It closed everything down.
Robert Trout (18:47.375)
Yep. And it is a little bit of a neurological trick and it’s okay. If you’re a parent, like this isn’t like, I’m tricking them and you know, that’s not okay. It’s like, no, like you are guiding them without them really understanding why it’s working. You know, again, you showed up in the conversation and they might have already been really angry.
Paul (18:53.889)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (18:58.932)
No, certainly not. It’s an invitation. Yeah, totally.
Paul (19:08.034)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Robert Trout (19:14.827)
Well, you have that choice. Do you want to jump up to where they are and start that fight? Or do you want to meet them in that? Like, you can be angry. That’s OK. But I’m not going to yell back. Instead, I’m going to use that pause, which is amazing calming technique where it’s like I heard what you said. And now give me a second. I’m trying to feel like what the best way to say this back to you would be.
And you notice that tone? Like, I’m not screaming back. I’m literally like, huh, okay, that’s an interesting point. Let me think about it for a second here, which that pause usually leads into the opening that you can step into so many other calming techniques, including the changing location. Huge skill. Get out of their bedroom. Like,
Paul (20:09.282)
great skill.
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (20:13.815)
It’s like, you know, you made a valid point there. I need to think about that. Do you want some hot chocolate? I need some hot chocolate. And just leave the room. And it’s amazing how many times the kid follows you. Because you’ve got them hooked. And you’re, it’s like, okay, well, I want to continue this conversation. Or to the kid very often is like, well, I haven’t won this fight yet.
Paul (20:31.435)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (20:43.767)
So they have to follow you to continue the fight. But you know that you’re changing the location, which hopefully opens up space for you and them leading to neutral territory or to the kitchen where you’re going to make hot chocolate or tea or, you know, go outside and have fresh air and sit on the porch or whatever it might be. But trying to guide them and lead them out of that
place to somewhere else is from that pause. That pause sets up the opportunity for that kind of location switch. And that’s just the first that comes to mind. Do you have any that you’d add to that? It’s like, pause and then this that you would lead someone into.
Paul (21:23.326)
Yeah.
Paul (21:32.909)
Yeah, I love that redirection into a different location because there’s often spots if you were to reflect on your own family dynamics, there’s certain spots in the house that just have tension. Right? Like maybe it is the kitchen and you need to move to the living room or maybe it’s the like narrow hallway. Never have a conversation in a hallway or a bathroom. Right? And sure as hell don’t stand in the doorway.
Robert Trout (21:45.59)
Yes.
Robert Trout (21:52.917)
No.
Paul (21:57.388)
Right. so create this space for them again, to feel safe and move a little bit, because as we move our bodies, we release some of the tension, right? So this is all contributing to this idea of slowing down, you know, and even when you get into the kitchen, say to make the hot chocolate, like move your body around and like loosen up your shoulders a little bit as you’re doing it. Cause again, more modeling, right? Cause you can even say like, man, I just got some tension in my body.
Like, are you feeling okay? yeah, what’s going on? Can you take a deep breath right now? And just exploring the idea of like, how can we settle our bodies a little bit so we can cue sometimes relaxation through just like that curiosity and that modeling. Another thing in terms of calming.
would be being conscious of your positionality and posture. Like I was saying, don’t stand in the doorway. What I would also say is watch out for your eye line. If you’re standing and your eye line is above them and you’re looking down on them, that’s a controlling sort of hierarchical structure. Be on the same eye level. Whether that’s you need to sit down with them in a comfortable position rather than leaning in over the top of them or anything like that.
But creating this space again for them to recognize that you’re not taking like a conflictual stance or posture, soften your posture, right? Because how you present it and it’s not just, well, let me pause because it’s not just body language. It’s not just eye contact. It’s not just facial expression. It’s not just tone. It’s not just volume.
It’s not just how fast you’re talking, it’s all of them. If somebody’s already ramping up, they’re gonna be sensitive to anything that feels like that energetic coming back towards them. They’re gonna feed off that and then you’re just both climbing the ladder. So being able to stay attentive to yourself. And that’s something that you started off this conversation with Rob, like, it’s gotta start with the parents first.
Paul (24:18.357)
So as we’re moving through any of these scenarios of like starting in their bedroom, going to the kitchen for hot chocolate, moving to the couch in the living room, you are constantly checking in with yourself. You’re taking your own deep breaths, whether that signals that to or not. You’re moving and rolling your shoulders out, whether that signals for them to do it or not. You’re relaxing your body language when you sit on the couch, whether that actually is something that can join in or not. You’re taking care of yourself from moment to moment because that’s going to make you a better listener.
It’s going to make them feel like you’re more present with them. It’s going to make it so that they don’t feel like they need to ramp up more. It’s that invitation to move into that mutually receptive place. You’re showing your interest in where they’re at, what’s going on, right? With that pause, if I’m thinking about it, and then you’re asking a question, tell me more, right? So these things that we’re really kind of piece-mailing together here.
Robert Trout (24:53.015)
Thank
Paul (25:16.012)
are this bigger picture of a plan like you were talking about, Rob. It’s like, how do we address somebody who’s escalated? Again, it starts with us, and then it continues on with staying connected to them. If they feel disconnected or they feel a barrier, that’s not gonna help them calm down.
Robert Trout (25:23.733)
Yep.
Robert Trout (25:35.285)
Yep. And let’s be clear, we’re not just talking about people who are escalated and angry. We’re looking at that assessment and saying, wait a minute, where is this kid? Red, green, blue. Like if they’re depressed and refusing to get out of bed, same thing. We need to co-regulate and bring them up to meet us. And similar skills. mean, so you’ve touched on a lot of skills in this last statement that you just made.
Paul (25:41.825)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (25:50.862)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (26:03.607)
That I’ll kind of do it kind of a retouch on the one is called nesting nesting is a skill set for calming down where the individuals or individual move into a space that Elicits a calming response. So this is like crawling into bed and getting the big comforter and like the weighted blanket or whatever
It is for you and like nesting in sitting on the couch is where you were talking about. It’s like move to the comfy couch and like sit with blankets and like look out the window or whatever it is. But nesting is a calming technique used across the board. Then we get into the next section would be called physical relaxation, which can get really specific. But for example, you were talking about.
recognizing the body. So you’re in the kitchen and you’re waiting for the water to heat up to make hot chocolate or tea or whatever it might be and you’re rolling your shoulders, right? That’s a release technique that’s very physical. And to be honest across the board, the body is the housing unit of the nervous system. So if you’re a parent and you’re in any scenario with your kid that you’re feeling that move your body.
Allow yourself to stretch. I’ve got so many parents now that have worked with me for a while that they’ve learned like they sit on the bed and they lift their foot up and they start stretching and pulling and massaging their foot. And then they switch and they do the other one because it’s giving their body release from tension and allowing connection to happen through that process of Whitman’s thing. Like, Hey, I’m getting rid of my tension. You should do the same.
We’re sending those types of messages to each other. So using your body for that. On a small side note before we move on, if someone is really escalated, I love the technique of the parent moving the environment, getting out of wherever the energy was. And then I challenged my parents. Okay, then what I want you to do is lay down in the floor.
Robert Trout (28:20.275)
of whatever room you’re in and you’re not allowed to look at them. Don’t look at them. Keep the conversation going, but push yourself into the awareness of it’s really hard to fight without your body being a part of the posturing and the putting in the presence and etc. So if you’re on the ground and you’re staring at the ceiling,
and you’re only allowed to use those verbal cues and techniques, it’s for most people, not all, but for most that I’ve worked with, they have found that like, I’m paying a lot of attention to my tone, to the words I’m choosing to say, because I’m in a completely vulnerable place on the floor, unable to move quickly, and I don’t quite know what’s happening for them. I’m like,
taking in and taking in and taking in and just allowing myself to stay grounded literally in this process. And that’s just one thing, but there’s so many techniques that come in when we start including this understanding of the body, the tone, the word you chose, the et cetera. Like if you start to remove a few of those and be in control of it because of the position you put yourself in,
your awareness starts to hone in easier and easier to what you’re trying to accomplish because you’ve taken part of your natural response out of the scenario. And then the last thing that you talked about a little bit is if you’re in the kitchen and you’re rolling your shoulders, those are the opportunities to start bringing in so much about like soothing activities.
such as washing your hands, like give them the mugs to wash because their hands will be in water that is a different temperature than their skin. And those sensations speak to the body that something’s different. It diverts that neurological pathway out of where they’re trying to stay into, that water’s hot or that water’s cold or whatever it might be. But using sensation.
Paul (30:13.718)
.
Robert Trout (30:39.367)
of temperature or feeling or all those things are an extremely powerful tool to help co-regulate and calm someone because they have to pay attention to more than one thing. Super simple things that you can integrate into the processes that you’re trying to do, including the whole like, hey, let’s lay down on the floor and look out the window and now they’re on the floor and maybe it’s one of those really plush
carpets that they’re like putting their hands into and feeling or this is my favorite call the dog Let the animal the cat the dog whatever come in and let them hold the dog and pet the dog while they’re talking to you because that’s also a part of co-regulation proven neurologically that we regulate to all the things around us not just the people so if the dog is a happy like therapeutically centered kind of dog
and they’re petting that dog, they will start to automatically regulate to that more calm place because they don’t want to upset the dog. All of these are immensely useful skills for calming anyone down from the parent to the kid. Thoughts on any of that? I know I just went on a tangent, but this is really exciting stuff.
Paul (31:57.367)
Yeah, I mean, it definitely, you know, paints a picture of opportunity, right? When we’re talking about trying to regulate a loved one, again, I’m going to echo it starts with ourselves and then get creative. You know, the basis of what we’ve been talking about is movement and self-awareness, right? And so when it comes to that idea of like, get out of the box that you’ve been in.
Robert Trout (32:03.254)
Yes.
Paul (32:26.552)
with your child, get out of the patterns, recognize that you’re contributing to the patterns, do something different, right? Create an invitation and do it with a sense of, I’m gonna project, I’m gonna convey safety, because that’s where the conversation lies. That’s where receptivity lies. That’s where you can connect and attune, right? And I guess I’ll just add one more thing too, when it comes to like, co-
co-regulation and the understanding that we as Gosh as humans we have these amazing nervous systems and intuitive aspects of self and there’s these Really profound connections that we have especially with our most infinite or infinite our most Intimate partnerships like children or you know partners and
we can actually sometimes feel sensations that they’re feeling. It’s kind of a weird concept, but if you’re feeling tension in your chest and your throat’s tightening up and your belly’s starting to constrict, they might be feeling that same thing. And in fact, it’s often the case, you know, so being able to attune to your body and then get curious about like, okay, what can I do for myself? It often then becomes the thing that you can maybe support them in doing for themselves. So
That thing of take care of yourself first and learn from that and then offer. It’s such a, like a much easier approach than trying to figure your kid out. Okay. So put that in your back pocket.
Robert Trout (34:07.541)
Yep, absolutely. Yeah, and maybe this is a good closing point on just calming down. Like the reality is these are a lot of the basic understandings of technique that we’ve touched on and concept when it comes to that co-regulation and how important it is for you as a family. So I guess final thoughts, anything you want to add before we kind of close this out?
Paul (34:38.444)
Everything that we’ll always bring forward in any of these conversations, the foundation is relationship. And like I said earlier, if you can have a mutually receptive conversation, you don’t have to agree, but if you can be receptive to one another, which includes like reflective listening, pausing, creating space for each other’s thoughts, asking questions for clarification, if you can do that, if you can get there, you’re winning the game.
Robert Trout (35:11.316)
So to all the parents who are listening to this take this as a starter thought process of recognizing that if you’re in a conflict oriented process with your teen tween or young adult or Adult for that matter and there’s that understanding that it’s like, okay We’ve done this a lot like this is a pattern for us in our family Then you’re the one we’re trying to reach right now
to hear that co-regulation is very often the problem that parents jumped over. They missed the understanding or the importance of recognizing their role in that process of the fight, of the conflict, and of the pattern within the family. So this is a very powerful concept to hold onto and say, if I can start.
practicing this, if I can change how I show up, and again it’s that step back, assess them, and regulate myself, because that regulate is under that, is the I know what I’m about to do. I have a goal and a plan and the skill to implement that. And if you’re missing any of those things, come find us at parenttrainers.com and join our community to ask questions, take sessions with us, do the online trainings.
to figure out what your plan is or to develop the skill necessary to override those things. There’s so much that we can learn. It’s an endless process, but if there’s something you’re missing, then you’re usually spinning. So come find us and join us, share your situations and questions and podcast ideas with us at parenttrainers.com. And as always, thanks for listening.
Paul (36:37.281)
Okay.
