Parent Problems Today Podcast Transcript
In this episode, Robert Trout and Mary Zahnbrecher explain how choice based parenting replaces power struggles with learning: offer structured options, front-load expectations, let natural consequences teach (e.g., phone curfews), and time tough talks for regulation. Expect better cooperation, stronger relationships, and teens practicing real self-management.
Robert Trout (00:02.13)
Alright, welcome to the episode. Today on Parenting Problems Today, we are looking to have a conversation with Mary Zahnbrecher and myself. And what we’re going to look at today is this magical idea of choice. And kind of how that filters into parenting situations at home for kids, teens, young adults. It’s kind of irrelevant to the age.
This is one of those magical conversations or topics, I should say, because choice is something that is both a tool, but it’s also something that is a foundational key concept for families. So with that, I’m gonna punt this over to you, Mary, and say, what’s your idea? Like, what comes up for you with the work that we do with families when I say choice?
Mary (00:54.647)
Yeah, I think the first thing that comes to mind is just like putting myself back in that element of being a young adult, an adolescent, a teen, right? And this idea of feeling so powerless in our lives, like mom and dad make all the decisions. I have to listen to adults constantly. Right. And this concept of even working with teens just in program in a therapy room. Right. Of like.
Robert Trout (01:14.763)
Yes, sir. That’s correct. Thank you.
Mary (01:22.347)
I don’t have any power and control in my life. And a lot of that teenage angst that comes along with I’m trying to figure out who I am, I’m trying to individuate, I’m trying to develop an identity, and yet I feel so out of control all the time, right? And so looking at, when we’re looking at family dynamics, looking at how can parents contribute to a reduction of conflict, like choice in and of itself.
is this really powerful tool that kind of disarms the chance of conflict arising at times. And then also thinking about how we’re using choice to create young adults and teens and adults who can be more effective in their own lives.
Robert Trout (01:59.036)
I’m going to go ahead and start. first one. second one. third one. fourth one. I’m
Robert Trout (02:10.63)
I’m not sure if I’m going to be able to do that. Absolutely. And this is a really interesting foundational part of working with families for me. Because when I say choice, what always triggers for me is this
Mary (02:16.527)
because they have had the chance to experience themselves in a multitude of contexts without someone else telling them how to be or who to be.
Robert Trout (02:40.766)
looking at the dynamic with the parents versus the kid. Because in so much of the work that I’ve done in my career, working with parents, we have constantly come into the conversation of, oh, you just want them to listen to you. Ha ha ha, which.
Mary (03:05.446)
Whoa.
Robert Trout (03:06.362)
It just bleeds over into so much. With young children, there’s this thing about respect, or even teenagers, where parents are like, you need to respect me as your father, respect me as your mother, respect me in general. And the counteractive reaction for most scenarios actually comes down to choice, because the parents are usually reacting from that place of
not giving a choice. They start to demand. They demand your attention. They demand your respect. They demand the behavior changes. Whatever. I don’t really care. I don’t care what scenario you give me. There is always a kernel inside of every story of conflict within every family, I think, that we’ve ever worked with. That there’s something in there where the parents
Robert Trout (04:06.138)
and started to create what the kids, I mean, when I work with them, they love to use the metaphor of, well, I’m just in prison here. And come on, let’s be honest. If you’re a parent out there and you’re listening to this, you need to hear those words. They think they’re in prison. Your home, your family system very often starts to feel to them like something they’re being forced.
Mary (04:14.243)
Yeah. Ha ha ha.
Robert Trout (04:35.214)
to do and come on. We look at the neuroscience, right? And once they reach that developmental age where we get to that 11, 12, 13, you start to see that individualization process happen neurologically where they look at you and go, why do I have to do this?
Mary (04:52.999)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (04:55.97)
The younger kids ask why. They’re actually seeking information. You know, the five, six, seven year old, et cetera. Why? And it’s a huge joke, right? It’s like, but, but the reality is, is that in every one of these phases, you’re going to find a kernel of truth within whatever the kid is bringing to the table where in that story, there is somewhere that something was taken from them.
Mary (05:05.136)
Right.
Robert Trout (05:22.918)
And very often, I mean, almost 100% of the time, right? And it’s not 100% of the time, but almost. There’s something in there where a choice was taken from them to kind of create control versus education, versus relationship, versus natural consequences, which are both good and bad, right? So for me, when I think of choice, it doesn’t even go to one set.
Mary (05:47.268)
Right.
Robert Trout (05:52.398)
age group anymore it goes to all the parents are creating a scenario let’s find that that’s what’s going to be important here is where did you remove choice and therefore remove the possibility of this kid learning from their own decision learning from the boundary or consequence or process that’s happening because it became about control so i mean that’s what comes up for me uh do you have any scenarios you can throw at that
Mary (06:19.148)
it.
Well, and what’s coming up for me is just this idea of parents relinquishing control and how hard that can be for certain parents because of the inherent anxiety and fear of what happens if, what happens when, right? When as professionals we can step back and say, well, the most powerful form of learning for humans
is through experience. And so if we keep diving in every time, we have an anxiety over what might happen, right, whether that’s actual safety concerns, or embarrassment in the community, right, like there’s so much that comes up for parents over why they have a hard time relinquishing choice. And so yeah, like, I can think of parents who really worry about
Robert Trout (07:06.972)
I think that’s a good question.
Mary (07:20.835)
the worst case scenario, right? That has happened with their child to their child. And then the fear tends to go into problem solving and rescuing mode, right? Which is exactly what we want kids to learn how to do for themselves. And so there is a complexity within choice, I think that we should talk about in terms of like, we’re going to give choice in the context of boundaries.
Robert Trout (07:49.006)
I’m going to go ahead and start. OK. So I’m going to start with the first one. OK. So I’m going to start with the first one. OK. So I’m going to start with the first one. OK. So I’m going to start with the first one. OK. So I’m going to start with the first one. OK. So I’m going to start with the first one. OK. So I’m going to start with the first one. OK. So I’m going to start with the first one. OK. So I’m going to start with the first one. OK. So I’m going to start with the first one. OK. So I’m going to start with the first one.
Mary (07:49.383)
And that’s where we come in and we help you really look at the nuances, right? Families look at the nuances of what does that boundary system look like? And within that context, can we allow kids to just kind of bounce around and fail and succeed within making choices so that they can learn, this is who I am, right? How many of us can step back and think about our parents or our caregivers and say,
Yeah, their truth is my truth. Everything that’s true for them, everything that works for them, everything that they believe is real, possible, is true for me. No, right? We’re our own individuals. And so this idea of allowing your child to have their truth and operate within the framework of who they actually are and what makes sense and what works for them and what their limitations are.
Robert Trout (08:33.38)
And then, I’m going to go ahead and get my first step to go to the next step. So, I’m going to go ahead and
Mary (08:48.387)
versus yours and what worked for you, you know, 20, 40 years ago, which you will hear from your child, right? Like, you don’t know anything, you’re old. Right. And so allowing kids that choice to learn to grow to feel empowered. Yeah, it’s super important.
Robert Trout (08:55.28)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (09:09.163)
Well, the reality is this is a much bigger topic than we can cover in a short podcast episode. So what I do want to do for anyone listening is kind of throw out some examples of things that we’ve seen and scenarios that we’ve had to deconstruct. And you know, the first thing that comes to mind is actually a not from a client, but from me witnessing and helping someone.
that I was hanging out with and there was a three-year-old involved and it was this amazing scenario of a power struggle, right? And those terrible twos and threes. So many parents can relate to those times of like, oh, it’s time to go. Well, I mean, come on, what’s gonna happen in that moment? And we all know that the… No, I don’t want to go. It’s not
Mary (09:47.559)
Okay.
Mary (09:53.735)
Ha ha ha.
Robert Trout (10:04.45)
struggle that immediately comes up because at that age the kids supposed to figure out what’s real and not real and they’re just curious what I mean what is gonna happen here so I watched the power struggle happen for several minutes like just like time to know I am it was really cute and there’s that frustration that you can see building in the parent where it’s like no like you need to come with me it’s time to go
It’s like, okay, hold on, hold on, hold on. So I stepped in very gently and was like, okay, I hear that you want to stay. So you can choose, you can stay, but we’re gonna go. So you can stay here then come later or you can come with us now. And we got the parent to come with me and my daughter and we’re walking away.
And of course, the immediate reaction is, oh, I’m going to come too. Because we’re already halfway across the park. And like, here we go. And there’s those dynamics that for me, that example just rings true to the you can step into the power struggle with a three year old. You can do it with a six year old. And God knows you can do it with a teenager. Right. Like teenagers are the masters of power struggles, because unfortunately
They’ve learned how to become the lawyers that they need to be to try to gain power within their hierarchy system, right? So that’s just one example where it’s like, okay, hold on. We’re going to offer a choice. Oh, I hear you want to stay here. Okay. Well, you can stay here by yourself or you can join us. I mean, the solution is in the choice.
Mary (11:39.407)
Right.
Mary (11:52.41)
Mm-hmm.
Mary (11:57.688)
Right.
Robert Trout (11:58.03)
So, and I get that for the three-year-old, and that is easier, in my opinion, than when we get up into those older ages, because in those older ages, they’re gonna dissect the tone, the body language, and what they have a chance to gain by fighting harder or increasing the stakes of the fight. So, do you have anything from older?
Mary (12:22.923)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (12:25.958)
Any scenarios that pop up for you and it’s like, oh, well, there’s also this one
Mary (12:30.147)
Yeah, I mean, there are a lot of times where parents historically struggle with making demands or trying to control a situation related to something like homework or extracurricular activities or a clean room, right? Just things that are, could be pretty minute in the scheme of things, but become this really big like blow up.
Robert Trout (12:59.191)
Oh, wow. I have a question. Hey, how are you? Yeah. How’s it going? Great.
Mary (12:59.555)
right, because of the ideas of how things should be done, when things should be done. And much in the same kind of vein of what you’re talking about. It’s like, wait, I’m in this situation, I’m having fun, I’m enjoying this, why are you gonna rip this away from me? Right? That’s the experience that this child is having or this teenager is having. It’s like, wait, I’m in my own world right now and you’re telling me I need to do something a certain way right here, right now?
It’s first of all, neurologically, right? It’s just, it’s jarring. And so helping parents see the difference between like their feeling of it needs to be done now, or it needs to be done a certain way, and dialing back and looking at, wait, what’s the actual intention here? So they get their homework done, or that they learn to manage time between social and extracurricular with school, right?
Robert Trout (13:30.099)
So, here’s our list of questions.
Mary (13:57.911)
And so by even using something like the or statement of do you like to do that now, or do you wanna break before you start your homework? And just that is allowing the child to learn something about themselves as simple as, man, when I am switching tasks, when I’m going from school to home, I actually do need that transition time or something as valuable as,
recognizing when I put social needs first, because I feel so intensely about that, right, developmentally appropriate to want to be in the social stuff all the time. But when I do that, it’s harder for me to then initiate the task of homework. So we’re really allowing the child this integrated experience of themselves where they go, oh, that actually doesn’t work for me. Or, oh, this is great.
Right? And so not only are we reducing the conflict within what needs to get done or what we want to have happen in the family system, but we’re then allowing this child this immersive experience where they actually have the feelings and thoughts and everything that come along with making a successful decision or making a decision that really just doesn’t work.
Robert Trout (14:56.17)
I’m going to read it. Yeah. I don’t like it.
Robert Trout (15:20.527)
Yes. For me, I very often talk to parents of teenagers and young adults is where it mostly comes up where you have to set the stage that the child’s learning from real life, rather than from conflict with you. Right. And so hearing you say that kind of triggers that for me where it’s like, also.
Mary (15:35.975)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (15:43.434)
you as the parent have to make the choice, do you want to be the authoritarian? Do you want to be the police officer? Do you want to be the controller? Do you want to be etc. And so often when I ask parents those types of questions, the answer is well no, I wish I didn’t have to spend my time trying to get them to give me their phone before bed, right?
Mary (16:06.939)
Yeah, it’s usually an exhausted like, no, please take this away from me, right?
Robert Trout (16:12.543)
Yes. So I just want to put that out there to any parent that’s listening to this is that it’s not just offering choice to the kid. It’s looking at your choices, too. How did you set up this interaction? How are you wording the phrase, which is part of our coaching that we do, it’s like teaching parents how to use language the most effective way that they can.
for every scenario, whatever their kid’s going on with developmentally, neurologically, mental health wise, etc. But outside of that, we have to stop and say, okay, hold on, back up. What decisions, what choices did you make, or not consciously make, to set the scenario for the conflict or the struggles or the processes or family system that you designed? So going back to that, what I would offer to any parent listening to this is
an example of a phone. Oh my god, this is something for every parent of a teenager where it’s like, okay, they’re supposed to give me their phone at night before bed at nine o’clock. And first of all, they’re like, great, I’m so glad you have a boundary set where every night at nine o’clock you give this phone. What happens though is that if the kid doesn’t or they’re actually, for example, they have an addicted cycle developing around social media or on the phone use, etc.
They start to fight harder and harder about that. Pushing for more time or just not giving it up. So I work with families all the time that it’s like, okay, first of all, give up the fight. This isn’t a fight, this is a function. So it’s one of those, okay, the choice is to say to the child or teenager or young adult, whatever scenario you’re in, where it’s okay. The expectation of the house.
Mary (17:49.147)
Yes.
Robert Trout (18:03.71)
of the house is that at nine o’clock, we all or you or whatever the scenario, depending on what level you have to go to. And sometimes it isn’t all. Sometimes you have to demonstrate and model the behavior that at nine o’clock, your phone goes off too. Just putting that out there. Like there’s levels here of function that we need to work on within family systems to get something actually accomplished. But that’s, that’s a whole other podcast.
Mary (18:12.987)
Mm-hmm.
Mary (18:20.805)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (18:34.15)
But looking at the choice, it’s okay at nine o’clock your phone will either be on the charging station or it won’t be. And there’s the choice. It’s not I’m gonna come looking for you, I’m gonna take it from you. It’s the choice. If it’s there as it’s supposed to be, then nothing changes. You keep your privileges of having the phone, you know, during the day or at school or whatever. Like whatever it is that you’ve designed within the family.
Mary (19:03.431)
All right.
Robert Trout (19:03.814)
If it doesn’t show up by 9 o’clock on the charging station, then in this home, the phone disappears for 24 hours. You know, and that’s very often an app that turns the phone off for a set time period or something. But if you don’t, like I tell my parents, like, do not go to their bedroom at 9.05 and say you need to give me your phone.
Mary (19:15.636)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Robert Trout (19:34.114)
That is not what this is about. That’s you as the parent making the choice to initiate a fight about this, most likely, in the scenarios that we find at least. Like, you’re stepping into their territory now, and they maybe needed the fight. They set the stage for this to alleviate emotional stuff that they had bottled up. They know it’s coming.
Mary (19:42.054)
Right.
Mary (19:46.022)
Right.
Robert Trout (19:59.314)
It’s actually a part of the game they’re playing neurologically or emotionally or et cetera. So you just actually stepped into a trap. Whereas most parents go, well, it’s my job to take the phone from them. It’s like, no, it’s actually not your job to teach them about healthy boundaries and healthy processes, et cetera. So at nine Oh five, the phone just turns off for 24 hours. And I can’t tell you the relief that the families have found in that where it’s like, there was no fight. There was no et cetera.
Mary (20:21.671)
with.
Robert Trout (20:28.99)
And the kid in most circumstances is a, oh God, I was late, crap. Oh, I hate this, oh. And they take that frustration, but that’s what’s teaching them. I didn’t accomplish what was expected of me. And in this home, the phone turns off. There was no fight. So therein lies the choice on multiple levels from the parent side.
Mary (20:47.697)
Right.
Mary (20:55.387)
Right.
Robert Trout (20:55.526)
and from the kids’ side, but we also just eliminated a major fight that most likely had been happening for a very long time. So that example comes up for me from like the teenager era of development for a lot of families that are dealing with that.
Mary (21:03.129)
Right.
Mary (21:10.659)
Yeah, I mean, I can even take it a step further when I think about some of the families that I work with, where like sometimes we even get more hands off than that, and the kid stays up all night on the phone, and then feels really bad the next day and gets feedback from teachers that they trust and know, and gets feedback from other people. And within that same spirit, right, of like, we’re not engaging in this way anymore.
we’re allowing a stage of non-judgment and curiosity, then we can avoid the fight, allow the experience, and then there’s less of the mood of conflict, and we can actually help the child process. Like, how was it to feel so tired all day? Tell me what that was like. Would you like any support around the hard stop at nine? Right, and then we really help. And then…
Robert Trout (21:43.433)
And that’s why I’m here. Why? And we’re here. I’m here. Why?
Mary (22:08.475)
different contexts for different kids who are struggling, right? It depends on the struggle and what the history is. But we then set the stage for helping that child problem solve, rescue themselves, and also understand that sometimes we do need additional support. And that’s part of being an adult, right? Is that I can’t do everything on my own. And yeah, I’d like, I’d actually like you to remind me. I’d actually like you to shut my phone off.
Robert Trout (22:21.899)
I am. So, you’re in this?
Robert Trout (22:38.458)
Yes. And that’s a pretty high functioning kid though, let’s be honest. What we’re talking about here for anyone listening is that there is a full spectrum of ability. Sometimes that’s the ability of the family, sometimes it’s actually the competency of the parent. But in what you’re saying, yes.
Mary (22:38.95)
Right.
Mary (22:43.607)
Okay.
Mary (22:57.932)
Absolutely.
Robert Trout (23:01.15)
we do have kids that will ask for help and that’s great. It’s about setting the stage, right? Like for any parent listening, like what we’re telling you is play around with this, figure out what level of function your kid is at. And this is where you start to find that choice is one of the greatest tools for any family, regardless of the age of the kid or the struggle choice is a tool that can be adapted and become something that
Mary (23:10.616)
Totally.
Robert Trout (23:30.818)
can save people’s lives sometimes. I mean, it’s really a process of saying, instead of control, we’re going to start teaching through choice, outlining boundaries through choice, building relationship through choice. Oh, god, let’s talk about that for a second. Building relationship through choice. I have a
a certain family that I’m working with that pops into my mind that I want to kind of use as a case study for this where for this mainly the mother she struggles because she always imagined a certain type of relationship with her child that was just it like she had the child because she imagined what their relationship would be like and I mean long story short
It’s nothing like the imaginary idea that she had becoming a parent. And so through that, her work has been so primarily focused on understanding that she can’t force her child to become who she wanted them to be. So what she has to do every day is offer the opportunity.
Mary (24:43.92)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (24:49.602)
for both the child to show up and say, I would like to spend time with you today, and the opportunity for her to say, I’m gonna get to know who you really are today. So it’s a choice for her, it’s a choice for them, and it’s hard work for this mother. Extremely hard work because she wishes it was simple. And there’s that like, okay, relationship through choices about realizing that a certain developmental
Mary (25:06.499)
Yeah.
Mary (25:11.428)
Right.
Robert Trout (25:19.222)
line usually 11 12 13 at that point this person has the self awareness or self identity or individuation or whatever word you want to look at there’s enough there where it’s like now you have to start inviting there is no demand on relationship from that point forward it’s a exchange from now on no matter what
Mary (25:44.047)
You know, I’ve worked with similar situations actually in a lot of scenarios, especially with that 14 to 17 year old population, right? Of so oftentimes what parents want is just input. They want to give input into their child’s life, right? Because they’ve lived it, they’ve experienced it. And the invitation to parents really becomes the child’s choice to even engage with them, right?
And so often I hear from parents that, my kid just doesn’t say much. My kid doesn’t come downstairs much, right? So this iteration of the child feeling like they don’t have choice in a conversation or choice at how they’re going to interact if they do come downstairs. And so they remove the choice from the parents, right? And so a lot of times what we talk about is how to even approach a conversation.
Robert Trout (26:23.841)
Yes.
Robert Trout (26:41.05)
Mary (26:43.319)
in a way that allows the child to feel like they have a say in how they engage, what they engage in. And a lot of times asking parents to do something as simple as text their child, hey, I’d like to speak about this within the next couple of hours. I think it’ll take about 15 minutes. Would you like me to come upstairs? Would you like to come downstairs?
Robert Trout (27:10.29)
first on the left. And then on the right. And then on the left. And then on the right.
Mary (27:12.543)
you are offering your child the opportunity to reflect on, okay, I have to have this conversation that I’ve been dreading and I really just wanna get it over with versus you barging into their room, taking away whatever experience they’re having right then internally, demanding an answer, demanding the topic be discussed, right? And something that simple creates this environment of safety in which
Robert Trout (27:39.836)
I will read my name. And then, since then, I’ve been using the word
Mary (27:42.603)
kids really do start to engage more because they sense, right? Just at a base level, they sense. I don’t have to engage in things that I’m not ready to yet. I don’t have to feel like I’m constantly a part of this system where I don’t have a choice of whether I’m ready to talk or not ready to talk or have any sort of, yeah.
time to regulate before having a conversation. And so something that simple has, I’ve really seen it shift dynamics in a family.
Robert Trout (28:15.333)
Yes. Absolutely. And I think that’s a good kickoff point in this conversation because we’ve kind of talked about some examples of younger kids teenagers but
Let’s talk about those adults, whether they’re young or not. I mean, we have families that, you know, the parents that we’re supporting the kids are 35, 40. You know, we’re really seeing that dynamic in our industry, not just like our work, but just across the board that people want to learn how to work as a family system, including when the kid doesn’t even live at home anymore. Like the parents are trying to have relationship with them.
be connected and there’s so much we can get into around the kids being separated, isolated, social media, internet, across the country, whatever. There’s all those kind of scenarios. But let’s just look for a couple of minutes as we head towards the end of this episode about choice with adults. I can kick it off very easily with parents that are looking
Mary (29:27.504)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (29:30.526)
Um, directing those processes and kind of the case study that comes to mind for me is, um, the young adult in this scenario has a, um, personality disorder. And what constantly has happened in the past is using guilt, using fear around suicide or those types of things with the parents to say, Oh, well, if you don’t do this for me.
You don’t love me. I, you know, I would just kill myself and it would be your fault. That true like verbatim, like they’re so direct at this point. And this isn’t even this one family. This is common. This is such a normalized thing now. And what comes up for me is as I think about this one family and the scenario that we’ve been working through lately has been this understanding of saying, okay, you still have choice.
Mary (30:16.194)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (30:28.442)
I hear the fear, I see the techniques and the strategies being used within the family system where this individual is pushing you, pushing you to show up in the way they want you to show up. So now you have to show up with choice the way you want to show up. Like if you want to have energy for yourself, not drain all your financial resources, not etc. Then you have to create a boundary and the boundary can come from that place of loving choice.
where this family, their decision ultimately led to them saying to their loved one, we will support you and the way we will show up is if you show up like this, to do this type of work, this type of program or addiction recovery, et cetera, our resources go that way. Anything outside of that and we’re not, that’s not what we’re here for.
Mary (31:23.558)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (31:23.606)
So we’re here for you, we love you, we’re in this with you, and our resources go this way. And then comes that boundary of realizing that, yes, there’s going to be a reaction because of what’s going on for their loved one. And so accepting the reaction and having that choice where our resources go this way and our love is infinite, we’re here for all of it, but our resources go this way.
and you have the choice to do it that way or any way that you find that would work for you. We admit like maybe what we’re looking at isn’t what you want and you can go do what you’re an adult so you can go do whatever you want. So the parents are saying you’re free and there’s the choice right? You are free. You can go do it however you think is best for you. We’re going to love you either way and if you need our help our help looks like this.
Mary (31:56.76)
Absolutely.
Mary (32:07.353)
Right.
Mary (32:19.823)
Right. Yeah, that’s often the case that I find with young adults is this idea of getting stuck in roles, wherein the young adult is really expectant of the parents of fulfilling a role. And then there becomes this cycle of blame and victimhood, right? And so a lot of the choice does become independence and do what you want and finance your life. And we’re still here to emotionally support you. Or.
Robert Trout (32:47.595)
I’m going to go ahead and start the presentation. So I’m going to start with the presentation.
Mary (32:49.971)
here’s what we’re thinking about support, what support for you looks like. And there’s so many nuances to that. You know, I’ve worked with families where it’s, hey, we haven’t seen this pattern and I know you’d like to go back to school but we haven’t seen a pattern where you’re effective at that. So you can go back to school this semester. It sounds like you have confidence in that. And if it doesn’t work out, we expect this, this and this. Or…
Robert Trout (33:15.919)
12 4 7 8 9 10
Mary (33:17.647)
we can try some more intensive therapeutic work and then we can support you going back to college, right? So it’s like very nuanced in the way that we, I think, come in and really help families work out those scenarios. But ultimately, I think the goal is to have the kid resource themselves and make decisions regardless of their age. And then also, yeah, come to an understanding that working with their parents.
Right? It’s not often going to look exactly how they want, but they’re learning that skill of negotiation and that skill of really coming to understand themselves and individuate.
Robert Trout (33:51.888)
Yeah Yes So There is so much here like I said choices we’re really just doing this episode to introduce this idea
that choice is something that if you’re out there right now as a parent, I would really encourage every family to look at the conflict that they’re having and to stop and do kind of a self assessment. Where did I offer choice and what’s happening? Cause guess what? Your kids not like they’re, they’re fighting for what they want for their life, for their independence, for their drugs, for their
there’s space to make the wrong, you know, a really bad decision, you know, whatever it is, like whether it’s a three year old, right? Fighting or the 35 year old, it doesn’t matter anywhere. Like, so within this, really what we’re getting at is this self-assessment of saying, okay, what did you, um, what did you as a parent offer again, towards building relationship towards options and under
All of it, right, is do a self-assessment of what am I actually trying to get this person, the three-year-old, the 15-year-old, the 30-year-old, it doesn’t matter. This person who is not me, this person that if they were my child, I might have done this differently, but because we have emotional baggage, what am I trying to get this person, external of myself, to learn? That’s learn as a life lesson?
learn in relationship or family systems dynamics. I, like, choose a category. I don’t care. But if you’re doing something and there’s not a reason, meaning you’re not trying to build a lesson from this, guess what? You’re reacting. So there’s nothing being accomplished here for you or them. Like, if you don’t have that.
Mary (35:41.122)
Yeah.
Mary (35:58.243)
Well, right. Well, the secondary gain for the parent, right, is feeling in control and taking care of ultimately that anxiety or fear that they have about whatever’s gonna go on, right? But I always, yes, I always bring it back to, what’s the intention here? Why? Why does your child need this, right? And if you can’t kind of pull that back and relate it to a value or something you’re trying to teach, then yeah, let’s look at that bigger picture too.
Robert Trout (36:09.218)
Yeah.
Mary (36:27.34)
Absolutely.
Robert Trout (36:29.344)
Great. So much more to get into on this. I’m sure this is going to filter into so many conversations and episodes as we start looking at family-like scenarios and real writings from families that are struggling and trying to get kind of direction. But if you’re out there right now and you’re going through something, this choice is a foundational piece.
Mary (36:40.912)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (36:54.446)
that every parent needs to look at. You just have to. You can’t ignore choice and intention. You just can’t. So Mary, closing thought.
Mary (37:07.315)
Yeah, I would say for parents to really take that inventory and look at what choices are available to look with their co-parent on what are some ways that we can start expanding our child’s reach and decision making and learning and then look ultimately at what’s what stops you in that moment where choice is available and really work for yourself on that. Yeah.
Robert Trout (37:33.026)
Nice. Thank you, Mary. So if you’re out there listening to this and this is related to something that you’re going through, I encourage you to kind of seek out that external view. That would be my closing thought is that very often when you’re in something, you can’t see it because you’re in it. So if something’s happening.
Mary (37:36.933)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (37:56.034)
That’s where you need the therapist, the coach, the best friend, the, you know, I don’t really care. My point is to get that reflection. And this might be something you take to that person is to say, as I tell this story, can you kind of relate to me where I’m not giving a choice to my child? Where I might be making a choice that is perpetuating a cycle or a circle or an event within what’s happening.
Especially if you’re one of those parents out there right now that are like wow I keep having the same conversation over and over again Like this has happened 50 times a hundred times, etc Very often you can start to create real facilitated change Just by looking at where was the choice and the answer so often is there wasn’t one You’re just kind of doing the same thing over and over again and without choice changes really different
So I encourage every family to look at that and to do that self-assessment.
Alright, well thank you very much Mary, and I think this has been great, and I look forward to the next episode.
Mary (39:05.627)
Same here. Thanks, Rob.
