Robert Trout (00:01.738)
Hello and welcome to today’s episode on parenting problems today. We are looking to have a conversation today and today’s episode is brought to you by Robert Trout, Mary Zaunbrecher and Paul Arredondo, all from the parent trainers team. And today’s topic is a big one and I think it’s going to be a two part episode series. So if you’re listening to this, this will be part one.
And today’s conversation is something that comes up the majority of times, especially with tweens and teens for families that are working with that, but also young adults. And we’ll talk a little bit about how that plays in. But today’s topic of conversation is gaming and understanding the basics of online gaming and the impact that has on our kids and then the family system when it comes to gaming. So.
The goal of this conversation is we’re going to go through the 10 primary points that come up when we’re talking to families about what to do to support their kids and to understand what’s wrong and what possibly they can do to try to head off an even bigger problem. in the online world and in our therapeutic world, we definitely have to pay attention to online gaming and gaming addiction.
and kind of the practices that lead to that. So we’re going to tie all this together. So today in part one, we’re going to try to get through half of the points to better understand and offer insight into what we’ve seen from families in the past and what kind of comes up in that process for a family wondering like, well, what should I be aware of? And how maybe do I head this off at the pass so that it doesn’t become?
a bigger problem. So, that being said, it’s a very simple place of where to begin this conversation and that’s because this usually doesn’t show up as a problem. Families don’t, parents and caregivers don’t usually say, there’s a problem because they’re playing this online game until…
Robert Trout (02:22.44)
Level one happens, and this is the first point that comes up almost every time in conversation for families that are dealing with online gaming, and that is time management. And that really shows up because it becomes a problem when the gaming and the time management element of that starts to spill over into the whole family system. So I’m going to pass that off here.
When I say the whole family system is impacted by time and gaming, what comes up for you guys when you’re thinking about that?
Paul (02:59.687)
I think it could be just very normal everyday life, right? Like interrupting meal time or getting out the door, whether it be to school or an activity or something that the family is doing together, there’s just disruption. The teen or the young adult or tween is so focused on the game that…
for them they prioritize it over other things so the time management ends up being yeah super basic but also really complicated at the same time.
Mary (03:30.303)
Yeah, I’ve even seen it kind of conceptualized as my child is having trouble in the morning, which leads to like being late for school. And then when we play the tape back, it’s actually that child is, you know, either getting on to the game late at night. And so then loses sleep or actually wakes up in the middle of the night, can’t sleep, gets on the game.
Right, and so we see it as impacting not just, yeah, direct family time, but yeah, those activities of daily living not going as smoothly because of a lack of sleep or like Paul said, it just interferes with their desire or their ability to actually engage with the family.
Robert Trout (04:19.594)
Absolutely and For me this really shows up when we start seeing tweens and teens engaging in this because At least for me. That’s the level of development where they’re starting to really integrate into patterns that they want to explore So they’re individuating and very often that happens in some way on a screen now today’s conversation is about gaming
But I do want to make sure that we put a small disclaimer out there that gaming doesn’t limit this conversation from also being relevant to like social media and being drawn into a lot of the different apps and processes that kids are doing. Because in the end, what we’re really talking about in time management is linked to limiting screen time and building boundaries within the family system to understand what’s acceptable and not acceptable.
For each individual family and it’s different from family to family. mean, I know some families that the parents are on their phones all day and that’s work, but it’s also they’re also gaming. They’re also doing these things and for those families. It didn’t really become a problem until the school started to say like well, we can’t have them on like this, but it’s so normalized that the family then has to hold shift.
sometimes the whole family system, but it really is about recognizing that each individual family has to design their limits and kind of monitor kind of what’s happening for them in that process. So let’s step into that conversation a little bit. When you two think about setting clear boundaries and gaming hours and like Mary, you even said, like they get up at midnight to play because they can’t sleep.
So let’s just talk about gaming and boundaries and give some basics to that understanding. What comes up for you too for that?
Mary (06:25.535)
Yeah, I think for me, a way that we look at those boundaries and kind of conceptualize what’s the bigger intention here is starting with like as parents, your role in teaching maybe your child, we get our needs done before our wants done. And so a lot of times that boundary setting comes from a very big place of intention around helping
a child understand, you know, how to do the hard easy, so to speak, which is, hey, I’m going to get, I’m going to maybe take a break and decompress from school. And then I’m going to get the things done that I need to get done. And that extra time limited by what we know about screen time before bed, right? Then becomes kind of the jumping off point. And so we’re teaching kids even flexibility around that, which is important as well for a lot of families.
in that some days we have a ton of work, a ton of homework, right? What feels like just so much. And some days we have less. And in that way, you know, we can recognize that it’s not always about whether it’s an hour or three hours or whatever seems to work for the family, but rather around this intention of, yeah, you know, it’s really hard when sometimes we have three projects due the next week.
and we don’t get as much screen time. Let’s talk about it, right? And I think, yeah, just having that boundary set in that way lends a lot to having conversations around the game, the gaming, the screens, rather than just seeing it as bad, right?
Paul (08:12.075)
Yeah, and I would additionally say that boundaries goes in alignment with familial expectations.
like participating in family activities, getting outside. There’s that phrase, go touch grass. Go and experience life in the outdoors. Go get some sun on your skin. Really tapping into what is the family culture and what are they trying to uphold in terms of what is balance in life. So boundaries and expectations can be this broader conversation of what are your priorities and are you just…
Robert Trout (08:27.646)
All right.
Paul (08:50.84)
quote unquote, wasting away in front of a screen. Or are you creating an opportunity to go out and play a sport or participate in an activity or just go on a hike or a walk? So yeah, it is really about balance.
Robert Trout (08:54.1)
Right.
Mary (09:02.505)
Yeah, a lot of times I actually. Yeah, a lot of times Paul that reminds me, especially if this family has had, you know, a tough time and having these conversations in the past, what I will invite them to do is instead of setting up those like limiting boundaries of you can only play for this amount of time, it does. I ask them to look at it functionally from the other aspects of life.
Paul (09:08.963)
Go ahead.
Mary (09:31.093)
that they want their kids to nurture and grow in rather than just limiting this one aspect, right? And so, yeah, a lot of times we’re building that request or that intention off of those other aspects of life, mental, physical, social, Everything else that comes along with what the family expects.
Paul (09:34.98)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (09:57.236)
Yep, I agree with all of that. I, for myself, with a lot of the families that asked me to start breaking it down for them, because boundaries is a very big topic. And it’s like, OK, if we take it below boundaries, we get into functionality. And that’s what that speaks to for me is very much like, for example, and these are just some examples, depending on the family system and boundaries and that kind of process.
Paul (10:08.968)
huh.
Robert Trout (10:25.352)
families can put together a flow where it’s like, okay, you do get an hour of screen time after school, but only after you’ve made sure that your room is clean and you’ve had a snack, right? So in that category, we’re really looking at tweens, teens, but that’s just one example of like this process that you want to engage in that is limited.
It’s also tied to doing what’s expected for the family system. Your room is clean. You’re not, you know, you’re hydrated. You’ve had a snack. You’re taking care of yourself, whatever it might be. And that, that can be tied to anything, walking the dog or whatever it might be. So there is a general flow and functionality even below the boundaries because the boundaries flex a little bit within that flow.
For example, I know lots of families that every Friday or Thursday or whatever, they have family movie nights. That’s hours of screen time watching a movie together. And again, this conversation of gaming is not necessarily tied to all of the functionality because gaming is something that can be an addition to screen time, where it’s like, okay, we get to watch a show or a movie or et cetera as a family, but you’re also gonna play games.
Mary (11:38.337)
Thank
Robert Trout (11:45.524)
but you have to accomplish these tasks. So boundaries to functionality, families really, I feel can engage in this time screen management process a lot easier when they start thinking of the functionality of what do we need them to do in order to have the access to what they want to do. And we can meet them in that because again, it’s a conversation. And as they get older, you know, that can expand.
Paul (12:09.881)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (12:14.014)
where it’s like, okay, maybe we’re not monitoring as much when we get to like 16, 17, if they’ve shown that they’re functional in all the other areas that the family finds important.
Mary (12:27.394)
I also think about it in terms of what kind of kid you’re working with too, right? Like some kids really function well with like direct clear limits and self monitoring those things. And then some kids really do struggle with time management and time blindness in all areas of their life, right? So a boundary setting looks so different for each family that I’ve worked with depending on who each of their kids is really.
Robert Trout (12:28.382)
So.
Robert Trout (12:33.82)
yeah.
Robert Trout (12:49.033)
Thank
Robert Trout (12:57.374)
Yes, and neurological function. mean, for me, when we talk about a lot of the screen time and gaming, so often it’s tied to a neurological process or an autism diagnosis or something where for those kids, and we can get into deeper conversations in other episodes, but for the basics, just understand like for those kids, this world is far less real than that world at times.
we really do have to open it to what’s going on for your family system and for your kid and their development.
Mary (13:33.247)
Right?
Robert Trout (13:35.038)
So within that, that can open up category number two in this conversation when we’re talking about the basics of gaming is game content. And this is a really interesting piece because so often families will start work with someone like us or a therapist or a psychologist or et cetera, and say things like, well, my kid can’t sleep.
And the truth is, is that we dig into the family format very often that can come from something as simple as gaming all the way till bedtime and the whole blue light and sensitivity and stimulation and neurological effect of gaming all the way to the content of the gaming where I know plenty of twins that have nightmares and can tie the visualizations within the nightmares, the things they saw inside of a gaming world.
pick which one, it doesn’t matter. Their brain is trying to make sense of what they’ve witnessed and sometimes can even state that this feels traumatic. And it’s interesting when a younger kid says, I feel really scared and anxious and et cetera because of this thing, but that thing does not exist in this physical world. It’s inside that digital world. So.
It’s just really fascinating, but gaming content and neurological development age is really important for a family to consider when they’re the thing like, okay, what is our boundary around what type of gaming we’re going to allow in our family system until what point and what age or what, you know, when it becomes appropriate thoughts on that. What comes up for you too, when you think of the families you’ve worked with around the
content of the game.
Paul (15:25.366)
think it’s really fascinating just to see how games have been developed.
Robert Trout (15:29.992)
Hmm.
Paul (15:30.096)
I mean just the immersive aspects of what it means to play a game. They’re wearing headsets now, so it’s surround sound. Sometimes there’s rumble packs in the controllers, so there’s an actual visceral impact on them, as well as the intensity of hearing explosions or the visual aspects of what they’re engaging in as well. They’re pretty graphic. So creating the understanding of what your kids play
Robert Trout (15:43.676)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (15:56.426)
So, thank
Paul (15:59.773)
playing and how that’s impacting them. mean, it is going to be a future point in this conversation, which is, you know, get to know the game, create the space to have that conversation with them, what they like about the game, you know, and again, educate yourself, you know, maybe sit down and play it for yourself to understand how it impacts you and just notice what’s happening viscerally for you and how
Mary (16:08.555)
Yeah.
Mary (16:13.611)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (16:25.747)
your nervous system gets ramped up because these games are are built to hook you in.
Mary (16:32.501)
Well, and I’ll piggyback off of that and kind of play devil’s advocate on the flip side of what Rob, you were talking about, which is there, you know, I was working with a family recently who said, you know, he plays these first person shooter games, right? And we just don’t know how we feel about it. I invited them to look at their research around it and yeah, to step back and look at, you know, what is it like for their son? And I actually had the opportunity on a home visit to,
Robert Trout (16:41.578)
you know.
Mary (17:01.887)
walk into the home and this kid was having trouble getting off of this game, had one more level to kind of complete and sat with him. And it actually turned out that this game was about so much more than just shooting the opposite team, right? And so the son and I got to talk a lot about kind of how this engaged his brain and also how much of a social outlet.
Robert Trout (17:21.674)
So.
Mary (17:30.781)
It was for him. So again, like that’s a piece that we’ll continue to talk about throughout this, these podcasts. But yeah, this idea of sometimes it’s, it’s about content and what you will and won’t accept as a parent in terms of what you are comfortable with your child being exposed to. And sometimes what I ask is that parents do go deeper and look at maybe it’s not just about what it looks like on the surface. And maybe there’s a lot more going on underneath it.
Robert Trout (17:57.547)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (18:02.762)
Yeah, it’s so important to open this as a conversation. It’s really not about the parents saying this is the way it’s going to be and being really authoritative about that. I never encouraged them to head towards that kind of like hard line. Very much more a how can they receive the benefit and the interaction of gaming to what their
culture is going to be for this new generation? How can they interact and even build friendships and understand and have things to talk about at school, person to person with other kids that are also playing the game or whatever it might be. But the parent has to start that in the, let’s talk about gaming and now let’s talk about what you need and want from the gaming that you’re doing. And then we get back to the functionality aspect of it for sure.
Mary (19:01.579)
you
Robert Trout (19:03.85)
So from that, you know, we’re having a basics conversation. So I feel like we can maybe move on from that because that’s a great segue into social interaction, which is kind of the third category that comes up for parents because for so many parents, they air quotes, don’t get it. I absolutely don’t understand because they used to, you know, go home and their parents were like, go out, come back at dark, you know, go play in the woods, go.
Mary (19:14.689)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (19:33.832)
Whatever. mean, I’ve heard every story and we all just have to smile about it. But the world has changed. It really has. And for these younger generations that are coming up right now in the gaming community, there are so many multiplayer games, team games to kind of build these sometimes international connections with people. And I say that because it’s not always the same age group.
Right? This crosses all thresholds because you’re really legitimately rewarded for your skill in whatever category you’re gaming in. And there are, I know people that have run into where the kid is 13 years old and they’re playing on a team where everyone else is like 40 years old. So it crosses every generation a gap.
but it creates a social interaction line where it’s like, okay, what’s appropriate for this kid and for their development and family, but also the conversation of their having interaction with people that respect them and want them on their team. And very often are building these connections that are international or, you know, across state lines at least. And in that process of problem solving and working through puzzles and et cetera.
So the social engagement is one of those things where it has its pluses and negatives that the family really needs to engage with. And sometimes that answer for me, and then I’ll pass it to you two, comes from the parents saying, hey, I want to get to know your team. You know, and having a phone call with the teammates that are like, hey, yeah, this is who I am and what I do for work and I’m doing this game because I do this and I love it. And yeah, your kid’s great and you know, it’s nice to meet you.
you know, in that kind of respect. But there is that like crossover and have the conversation because the social engagement’s very real in these gaming systems now. Thoughts? Yeah. absolutely.
Mary (21:42.155)
Yeah.
Paul (21:42.533)
And there’s a status to it, right? I mean, e-gaming is actually on ESPN. This is like the new version of the chess club is really what we’re talking about here. These kids are finding a sense of belonging. These teens, these tweens, these young adults, these adults are finding a sense of belonging and a
Robert Trout (21:49.246)
Yes.
Robert Trout (21:54.631)
Yeah.
Paul (22:05.233)
and status and sometimes structure and a sense of purpose in these environments. I mean, albeit they’re
There are environments that happen in a world that is beyond something we can touch and feel, but it is very real to them. And so being able to really understand how connective it can actually be, you know, and again, that comes back to curiosity, comes back to what is it that they’re receiving from the game? How many people they’re really interacting with? What types of conversations they’re having while they’re playing? Because they’re not always just focused on the game. They’re having like,
Robert Trout (22:43.71)
No.
Paul (22:44.647)
having clear, connective social interaction. know, and sometimes it is the sole social interaction outside of contrived settings like school that some kids have. So being able to understand why they value it on the social level is really important.
Mary (23:01.941)
Yeah, I mean, I’ve worked with many, many families that when we break it down, what we’re looking at is a way of connecting where kids actually feel a normal, I would say like, you know, for a neurotypical kid, right? Amount of pressure when interacting over a screen, not face to face, in an environment where it’s centered around something that we’re
Robert Trout (23:17.77)
you
Mary (23:31.201)
rather than just some nebulous conversation. And I’ve actually seen a lot of kids and young adults form real friendships and relationships with people in this way because it allows them that ease in social interaction. And as that friendship builds over time, I’ve actually seen some parents who, you know, take their 17 year old to Comic-Con to meet these people in person.
Right? And like you said, Rob, they’re having conversations with these people, with their parents. It’s a different way of forming friendships than I think we’re used to, you know, being born in the eighties or seventies or sixties that we really have to look at and not just say, that’s bad or that’s not great because we’ve heard a few stories or a lot of stories. But again, yeah, like Paul, you said the curiosity behind.
This may be a building block for my child who has a lot of issue with social pragmatic issues, right? Or yeah, being able to feel like they can functionally contribute to a conversation at times. And if we can develop that sense of esteem within them that, hey, I can do this, it just may look a little different for me, that becomes a building block and a building point.
Yeah, I think it’s wonderful to think about it in that way.
Robert Trout (25:06.122)
Absolutely. And, you know, we’re dancing through these basic conversations about gaming, so let’s make sure we touch on the other side of it, where we get into, yes, parents, if you’re listening to this, the answer is yes. Social interaction is dangerous. Now, hold on, before there’s panic from that statement, hear all the way through.
People interacting with people will always develop a sequence where needs are being met, but there’s also the dangerous side to that where you might get triggered. Someone else might get triggered. There’s an interaction that allows for reaction, and that, interestingly enough, is the same in real life and online. So as we get into topics such as cyberbullying,
as a part of this social interaction side to it, yeah, cyberbullying is awful. You know what else is awful? In-person bullying. So if you’re listening to this, make sure you take a breath because every parent is reactive when they’re worried about something negative happening to their kid. Please understand in a basic conversation about gaming that this is super important for you as the parent to develop the rapport and conversation with your kid.
around what they can and cannot share in real life and online. This is the same conversation because both worlds are interactive worlds. So I always try to make sure parents understand that like, yes, cyber bullying is awful, but it’s also just the next evolution of bullying. Like it’s just a reality where
someone might ask inappropriate questions or bully or pick on or heck, I know kids who have been devastated in multiplayer games because their group kicked them out because they’re quirky or do jokes or have Tourette’s and the group’s like, well, we don’t understand this. And they get kicked out and they feel unaccepted. There’s all kinds of interaction and reaction in real life and online, but
Robert Trout (27:26.442)
Let’s step into this side of this conversation just for social interaction. What comes up around the bullying and the safety and that element of social interaction?
Mary (27:37.791)
I think for me, again, I think it’s meeting your child where they’re at and meeting yourself where you’re at and understanding where that reactivity comes from. And it usually comes from a place of wanting to protect and keep safe and rescue your child from any harm or hurt, right? But again, I think it all goes back to that point that we keep making, which is curiosity.
And if you can stay curious and open to your child’s experience online and what’s going on for them and they feel safe coming to you and talking through what’s going on for them and know that, I can go to mom or I can go to dad and tell them about this thing without them having a big reaction, right? Without mom or dad having their own reaction from that place of fear.
then yeah, there’s a chance that you can help your child really learn to work through some of these things on their own, which is ultimately what most parents want, right? Is a functional young adult who can handle these types of situations. So again, it goes back to the curiosity piece and yeah, looking at this whole interaction from a standpoint of how can I be supportive?
even when it’s hard.
Paul (29:05.647)
Yeah, I think it’s a great opportunity for skill building. I mean, when you think about like the difference between in-person bullying and cyber bullying.
Cyberbullying is a little safer. You get to turn the machine off and that person isn’t directly in front of you. Right? And then you just have to, I hate using the word just, then you have to be with your emotions and be with the thoughts related to those emotions and have a process. And so there again is the curiosity from the parents supporting that process. So ultimately there can be a discussion about, all right, so if you put yourself back in there, how would you have done that differently?
How do you hold a healthy boundary? How do you be clear about your intent within a relationship? How do you be clear about what feels good to you or what doesn’t feel good to you in terms of how you’re being spoken to? And, you know.
Mary (29:57.409)
you
Paul (29:59.663)
Being able to manage those emotions, it’s as you were saying, Mary, it’s how we actually mature. Being able to have social interactions and manage conflict. right, so creating the opportunity for them to express themselves to you, right, rather than shut down because I’ve talked with, gosh, dozens of families where they’re concerned because they hear their kids screaming in the next room playing video games. And it’s like, okay, so how’s that conversation
Robert Trout (30:26.056)
Right.
Paul (30:29.597)
go when they’re done? Are you walking in and immediately screaming at them? Because that’s probably not supportive in terms of them being willing to talk to you about it. How do you engage them? How do you slow the moment down? How do you create space for that conversation? And that’s a skill we often talk about here with parent trainers is how do you approach your kid when, especially their teens, and they aren’t always the most vulnerable or
Robert Trout (30:45.77)
there.
Paul (30:57.217)
expressive when it comes to what’s going on in their internal landscape. So being able to again understand that they are trying to individuate, they’re trying to claim a space, they’re trying to claim a role and identity and to be able to support them in that process. For them to feel supported in that process. That’s what this curiosity is all about is how do you stay connected to them while they’re trying things out?
Robert Trout (31:25.022)
Yeah. And it’s one of those things like, you know, all bullying creates scars. It’s just internal or external scars. And the internal ones are the usually, you know, the hardest because you can’t see them. You don’t know where they are or where they’re developing. But I also want to make a point to any parent that’s listening to this, that a part of the cyber bullying conversation is the awareness that the importance of having
the parental safety for them to talk to you about it is important. It’s also equally as important for you to open up that space for them to understand their rights, their like their strength. For example, I know plenty of kids that we have had to teach the kid to understand
Paul (32:00.837)
super.
Robert Trout (32:23.38)
that just because they’re in this group for this multiplayer game doesn’t mean they have to stay in this group. Finding new friends is a skill and leaving a situation that’s not good or healthy for you. So many kids, they don’t think that. They say, I’m in this group. It’s so black and white for them. And they literally need to be handheld and taught through the let’s go.
Paul (32:34.363)
You
Robert Trout (32:50.004)
find a new group or start your own group and invite other people in and you create group culture around this. And it’s harder for parents to understand that usually in an online environment, but it’s just as equally important from real life to online when it comes to the kid understanding their strength, power and decision making that can help them create safe boundaries and healthy limits and that kind of work as well.
So gaming and the social interaction can be a very difficult process, but it definitely has to be something that you as a parent step into. And this again is a segue into the fourth part of this series of looking at categories of gaming. And it leads right off of what we’re talking about. Cyberbullying leads into the physical and mental health aspects of gaming for the individual.
And this goes, there’s a large spectrum here, okay, including keeping the kids safe in their own environment. I mean, I know kids who have physical problems because they don’t, you know, have a place to sit correctly and their necks crinked and they’re on their phone all the time.
The truth is, is that it goes all the way from the physical element of like their environment to game in all the way to the mental health aspect of what impact is this having on you, your personality and your style of interacting and you know, your, I’m going to say sense of worth even. mean, kids really tie their skill level to the acceptance from peer to peer or group members within.
whatever that gaming world might be. So mental health and physical health are both a part of gaming because your body’s there, but your mind is elsewhere. So what comes up for that as far as kind of the basics of understanding, you know, the gaming conversation for physical and mental health.
Paul (35:04.239)
I think there’s a stress within, you said, Rob, the classic hierarchical structure that these environments create, right? The gamers are cutthroat, especially if they’re really dedicated to it, right? And so when it comes to supporting your child and understanding how to be mentally, emotionally flexible, you might catch them coming out of that environment of, you know, being so just like, you
Robert Trout (35:12.67)
Okay.
Paul (35:34.233)
locked in, you know, they’re, they, it’s like they have blinders eye, they’re so immersed in that world that they just, everything else just fades into the background and for them to transition away from that and immediately go have dinner.
Like the adrenaline is still coursing through their body and like their anxiety is still heightened and they’re in that hyper vigilant sort of neurological place. Like they just got off a battlefield literally, you know? And so the, the, the grace that I, I would like to suggest parents meet them with, you know, and also again, the education around what that actually is neurologically, physiologically, maybe give them a little bit of a buffer, you know, Hey,
Robert Trout (36:01.982)
Yes, literally.
Paul (36:19.527)
don’t come right to the table. Go run around the house or do a bunch of jumping jacks. Do something to kind of like settle your nervous system. Shake it out, shake it out, shake it out. know, create the space for them to understand that they’re being impacted because tweens, they’re not always in their body or aware of these things. Teens, hit and miss. But if we’re talking about folks who are either ASD or ADHD, sometimes that can…
that connection to their physical awareness isn’t always as, they’re not always as adept at it. So being able to cue them into these things is part of, you know, that education and that self-awareness that can support them in stabilizing and transitioning out of video games and into video games. And that bleeds into other aspects of life, going into taking a test, coming out of that school environment, how do they decompress? You know, those sort of things can,
Robert Trout (36:54.89)
Yeah.
Paul (37:17.797)
can be life lessons. know, yeah, again, meet your kid where they’re at.
Mary (37:26.453)
Yeah, I think what’s come up for me the most in terms of physical health is the child who has trouble breaking away from that process of the dopamine flood in order to drink enough water or eat food. And so again, I think, you know, it goes back to this idea of having the conversation around needs, right?
Robert Trout (37:28.639)
Yes.
Robert Trout (37:47.41)
Right.
Mary (37:56.301)
and the conversation around how to take care of our needs, you know, even in the midst of really being so hyper-focused and being able to look at that intention that parents will oftentimes look at in terms of helping your child figure out how to manage those two pieces and aspects of their life.
Robert Trout (38:22.505)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (38:27.86)
Well, if we take this physical health aspect and the mental health aspect of this conversation, mental health is its own category to me, where parents do need to be aware that their interaction with the kid that is gaming is one level of mental health, where you’re either building relationship and understanding and
and making room for who they are and their culture and their world that you might not understand. But even if you do understand very often, it’s like, why are you doing that one? What, what draws you to that? So the conversation is just a part of it. There’s also the, you’re going to have a relationship that is going to include the conversation and openness about their successes, for example.
They’re winning and losing in those worlds. Those are very important conversations. The same is like, did you win your football game? It’s the same thing to that kid. It really is. So there’s an element of mental health within that that also goes into the being an aware parent that that kid might need to vent about a loss or tell you about something that’s making them uncomfortable.
or really leading into the distress because Paul, you’re not wrong, right? Like the adrenaline is very real and so much of the neurological testing that’s gone into gaming really like feeds into the brain can’t tell the difference. The brain, let me say that again for everyone listening, the brain cannot tell the difference between this world and that one to the brain. They’re both as equally real. So
It is releasing all that dopamine and all that adrenaline and all that like meaning. The creation of meaning is being placed upon the experiences that this person’s having in whatever world they’re participating in. So that let’s use that as a segue into the fifth and we’ll kind of close this part one out with this segment, which is all about balance and moderation. So.
Robert Trout (40:49.384)
the conversation for parents for me always goes into healthy gaming habits and literally calling it that it’s like we’re not necessarily looking at life habits. We’re looking at like, okay, gaming is something that plays a huge role in your impact and neurologically, socially, your feelings of self-importance and skill, right? Like skill that matters to that kid.
In that comes in the conversation of how do we keep this healthy because you do need to eat and drink and go to school and do your homework and interact with your siblings and have face-to-face interaction as equally important to online, right? Like we’re not like putting this is more important. It’s you need to learn both. These are skills that as parents we are going to develop in you.
So when we look at moderation and balance, it’s really the question of how do we break this into categories so that we as parents make sure that we’re giving you what you need in each one and gaming is just accepted as one of those categories. That’s my usual like, okay, let’s stop everything and start from this place that we have to put this as a category for you as parents. And then.
move into moderation and balance to everything else that matters to you for your family culture, religion, and structure as a family system. Now we can work because it’s included in that. What do you two think about balance and that kind of process?
Paul (42:31.693)
Yeah, I think you nailed it, especially when we’re talking about family culture, because the language that I often use is priorities. What are the priorities that your family has in terms of this idea of balance? mean, sleep.
That’s a priority, right? That trumps everything else. know, eating, drinking, those are priorities. Those trump everything else. You know, get the things that are the most important and make them non-negotiable.
You know, cause ultimately when it comes to having balance, you need to be very clear about what are your non-negotiables because if you don’t have sleep, everything starts to be, just more challenging to manage. know, if you’re not eating well, if you’re not hydrating, if you’re not moving your body, if you’re just stuck in a seat or especially a non-ergonomic seat, like you were mentioning earlier, Rob, and you’re all knotted up, especially while you’re holding tension because there’s
cortisol running through your system as well as adrenaline and all those other things you’re gonna be feeling just uncomfortable and then that just generates more irritability. So when we’re talking about balance we’re really creating this broader scope of what does it mean to live a full healthy life right and every family culture holds that in a different way. So think about it through the lens of priorities you got your non-negotiables which are the basic basics and then what else do you
back upon it. You know, maybe your faith is a priority going to church. Maybe it’s community orientation of being of service. Maybe it’s, I mean, we can run the whole gamut of examples, but create an opportunity for you as parents to communicate that clearly and say, yes, and gaming does fit in. And we will create space for it because it is important to you for all the reasons that I heard you express because I’ve been curious enough to sit down and have a lengthy conversation.
Mary (44:33.867)
Yeah. I think what comes up for me, I think Paul’s really covered a great amount of that balance piece and where we start off with parents in that way. I think what comes up for me in terms of moderation is this idea of kind of an assessment piece, right, for parents and does my child struggle with moderation once they are in this zone of the dopamine rush, right?
Robert Trout (44:37.113)
Thank you.
Great conversation.
Robert Trout (44:54.794)
Thank you.
Mary (45:03.689)
and what are the ways that I can support them in understanding or someone can support them in understanding that. That aspect of anything that’s fun, right? Any fun time. And looking at what lines it’s crossing in terms of just kind of a normal sort of zoning in and losing track of time when we’re having fun versus actually cutting into these non-negotiables, right?
Robert Trout (45:15.21)
Thank you.
Robert Trout (45:25.747)
So.
Mary (45:33.705)
And oftentimes, you know, working with parents, it’s looking at that difference and looking at how to kind of help have the conversation with their child over whether this is just a simple sort of, okay, we need to kind of rework this plan or if the child is actually having trouble with breaking away from something and it’s actually kind of bleeding into the relationship piece, the self-care piece.
Robert Trout (45:35.422)
Yeah.
Mary (46:03.423)
right, and their level of frustration tolerance and how they enact that.
Paul (46:10.267)
Yeah. I’ll also add to that the value of having the conversation about transitions, right? Cause that’s what you’re talking about, Mary is how do they move out of that video gaming existence into other life? Right. And that’s, that is such a valuable conversation to strategize. You know, ask the direct question, what would be supportive to you? A five minute warning, a 10 minute warning. How would you like me to approach that? What’s the language that you’d be receptive to? Not that you’re like.
Robert Trout (46:10.324)
Yes.
Paul (46:40.186)
handing them power. It’s just more about how do we collaborate to make this workable? Because this is important to you and then also we have other things that need to happen and we need to be able to create these transitions without them feeling like constant conflict. Right? I want you to have this experience and there are other things that also need to be accomplished or engaged.
Robert Trout (46:44.009)
Thank you.
Robert Trout (46:54.014)
Yes.
Robert Trout (47:01.051)
Very often the solution, and I call it the solution that families ultimately lock on to with this, especially with the younger, so tweens, younger teens, et cetera, the solution really becomes oriented around the flow of the family and just the conversation about this matters to all of us. So we have to have limits and boundaries or flow. If it’s not even limits, it’s
Hey, when you come home from school, we do these six things. Then it’s your time. Then we have dinner and this is how that works. And that structure every day being similar to the same is so useful for the kid because they become accustomed to this is how it works. So they’re far more likely to engage in the this is just normal versus feeling attacked.
Paul (47:49.085)
you
Robert Trout (47:56.326)
or forced out of their realm or whatever it might be, normal is just easier than, know, I guess we’ll figure it out. So the conversation leading into the flow and the structure that the parent ultimately is in charge of enforcing, over time it just becomes normal for the kid. And I can’t stress that enough, that building normal is very often the solution.
Paul (47:58.097)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (48:24.724)
to how this looks for especially the tweens and teens in that category.
Paul (48:24.787)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (48:29.959)
Yeah, especially when we’re talking about mental health, having a routine and having something that they can depend on in terms of clear expectations. Their nervous system is just more settled. They don’t have to figure things out. They don’t have to push back. It is about them getting their needs met. And also it under, it kind of goes back to that idea of balance. How do we work together? How do we collaborate? What’s the conversation that we need to have to make sure that, yeah, we’re being a family.
Robert Trout (48:37.374)
Yes.
Robert Trout (49:03.784)
Well, that takes us halfway through the normal conversations around gaming with families. So please join us for part two at a future episode. We’ll make sure that we cover the final aspects that families should consider as they’re looking at understanding gaming and opening the conversation in that process. As always, remember to send us any suggestions at our community at parenttrainers.com.
and join our community and ask questions and receive the support that you’re looking for. We look forward to every new family that brings us kind of the stuff that they’re working through. So thank you for listening and we look forward to having you join us for the next episode.
