Robert Trout (00:01.478)
Hello and welcome to the Parent Problems Today podcast. And today I’m your host Robert Trout and I’m here with Paul Arredondo, both from the Parent Trainers team. We’re here today to talk about a subject that comes up for, in my experience, mostly teens, is where parents kind of focus on recognizing new patterns in this arena. And the topic is really looking at healthy friendships.
And I say teens, but this definitely expands depending on the kid and the culture and where they are in their life into both tweens and young adults as well. Looking at like the development of healthy friendships, also recognizing friendships that aren’t healthy. So toxic relationships possibly that we’ve given power to. And I guess let’s kick this conversation off with the big part that comes up a lot.
just around parents who are looking at their kids and they suddenly have this realization or they’re doing work with us or someone and they come to the realization that their kid doesn’t know how to break up with their friend. Right? Like a relationship is like if we’re dating, it seems to be this like cultural conversation about how do you break up with someone that you’re dating. But friendships are relationships. And the truth is, is sometimes we need to break up with friends.
So I guess, Paul, I’ll hand it off to you. Like, what comes up for you when we start talking about healthy relationships, toxic relationships, but looking at this age group, right, tweens, teens, and young adults, like, where does that conversation go in your mind as we kind of open up that container?
Paul (01:44.62)
I mean, right from the start in this conversation, I want to take that step back and think about it through that developmental lens, whether it is a tween, a teen or young adult. It’s such a rich age where people are trying to find their identity. They’re trying to differentiate from their family. They’re trying to figure out how they can connect and have a sense of belonging outside the home and their peers and so forth, have a role.
in their environments outside of the home as well. And so there’s a lot of experimentation, you know, trying on different personalities, trying on different attitudes, trying on different activities, just to see what fits. And I think sometimes we find, especially working with families where the parents are fairly distressed over, you know, their kid being in a intense group of, you know, other kids, maybe
not feeling like they’re positive influence on their child or maybe their child’s not the positive influence, but whatever the case, having that sense of reflectivity about what is it that they’re seeing as normal as compared to abnormal? What are they seeing as something that we should expect? And then where is it actually kind of going off the rails a little bit? Meaning they’re…
getting in trouble a little too much. They’re starting to be defined at home. You’re seeing the being broader impacts in terms of their mental health, their ability to show up at the house, quick attitude changes. All of those things are typical first conversation questions and points of curiosity, at least I engage with parents about is, what have you seen? What’s changed?
is it the same friend group? And as you said earlier, Rob, has there been any change in the friend group? Like a, has one person left? Has another person come in? What’s been the influences on your child in that regard? and all of this comes with, of course, as we talk about in every podcast, you know, showing up with curiosity. So, yeah, those are the initial thoughts that come up for me.
Robert Trout (03:53.83)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (03:58.906)
Yep. Yeah. So in this conversation, I mean, we have to step into this kind of process of the parent recognizing that their kid, especially if there’s like a mental health process or a neurological delay or all these things, you have to take it at where is this kid in their own development? So there’s a curiosity is where is my kid at and how are they interacting with the people around? And, you know, there is that like, how do we define friendship?
Paul (04:19.05)
Eh.
Robert Trout (04:27.996)
It’s interesting because a lot of teens define friends as the people that let me hang out with them Right and I think as adults we have this broader view of like well What does friendship really mean and it’s different for almost everybody like what they’re looking for and how they get their needs met I at its base level for me the definition of friendship would come into a person of influence on your life
Paul (04:28.558)
Hmm.
Robert Trout (04:55.248)
Right, this is someone you go to when you’re feeling sad or you’re in trouble or you want to play, right? Like all of these different drives that are coming from a place of need are then like, okay, who slides into that spot for me as an individual? All of those people would be considered friends. And I know as an adult, we get into like, okay, levels of friendship and like, who, you know, is this an acquaintance or like a friend or a best friend or…
Paul (04:55.448)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (05:24.826)
you know, whatever level it might be. But with kids, it’s definitely that opening to the parents of saying, OK, what influences are coming into the dynamic with you and your child? And that’s where a lot of parents are like, well, there’s these three kids and those three kids are labeled as the friends. And it’s like, OK, so we’re really looking at a dynamic of your child interacting with these three people.
That’s the friend group. And as you start to dissect it, we have to start looking at like, okay, is this a positive influence or a negative influence? And then start breaking it down into, what do you as parents want to do with this? And honestly, step one for me is always opening that conversation with your child as to what are you getting? What are you getting out of your friendship with this person? Because…
The biggest mistake I think and I found in my work is the parent will say, I don’t want you hanging out with them anymore. Right? There’s so much judgment and pointed like energy at this kid. And in most circumstances, not all, but in most your kid starts to fight against you because you’re removing a part of what matters to them without their input, without their like, without understanding, without conversation.
Paul (06:47.933)
Yeah
Robert Trout (06:48.334)
It’s very control oriented because you’re panicking thinking this kid is to blame for what’s going on with my kid. I’ll pause there. Thoughts on that? Where do you go with all that?
Paul (06:59.014)
Yeah, I think the I think the fine point that you just said, Rob is without understanding. Right, you know, and so it’s a very reactive way of being in terms of parenting. And so we were in everything that we try and teach, it’s all about responding and not reacting. So creating the space to have some curiosity, learn more about your child, be curious about these other children, you know, and their influence and who they are and how they operate in the world, be curious about their families even, you know, and their
used to be this time when all the parents knew each other. And you know, that’s not as common. And so I want to encourage if that is not part of how you’re organizing around your child’s social network, I would encourage you to be curious about that. Is that something that you can do? You can assert you can get in touch with these parents to learn more about what’s happening at their house, what’s happened, let them know what’s happening at your house, what’s happening when they’re all out and nobody has eyes on them.
You know, and so being able to start off with that curiosity then makes for a richer conversation, right? It isn’t just a blanket statement and an overgeneralization of these kids are bad and you can’t hang out with them. Right. It’s a, it’s a much more, nuanced conversation that then comes back to the origin of this conversation. How do you help your child be discerning? How do you help your child make a good decision about who’s a good friend? What does it good friend? How do you define that? You know, and so.
therein lies a richer conversation around family values and creating an opportunity to drop in and define friendship, right? You gave a very like nice little snippet. I like to think about it too in that framework of like, hey, if you were to think about an idealic friend, what are their values? Honesty, trust, maybe it’s something just like common interests.
But, you know, being able to stay connected to somebody or understand the depth of connection that you’re experiencing, or maybe it’s the acknowledgement that it isn’t that deep. Because that’s also an important thing, right? And there in itself can open the door to your child having a broader perspective about what being social is, what having a sense of belonging is. So these are conversations that, you know, evolve over time.
Paul (09:22.066)
And it’s a lot of planting seeds. You’re not going to bear fruit on the first conversation. in fact, think about it in that framework of the long game.
Robert Trout (09:25.851)
Yes.
Robert Trout (09:33.882)
Yeah, and you have to, right? Because there’s so many topics that come up around healthy relationships and process for everybody. It doesn’t matter your age, but in this episode, we’re talking about like, you’re the parent, you’re recognizing your kid who is most likely a tween teen or young adult. And there’s this process where parents have forgotten that a part of their role is to teach. And this is part of that arena is teaching your child how to be discerning.
Paul (09:44.162)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (10:02.78)
and to make assessment of what is beneficial and not beneficial to them, their feelings, their mental health, all of those things, because that’s where it gets into, okay, this person, they are your friend, they’re also the person who’s bullying you, right? Like, let’s open the conversation about, you spend a lot of time really upset or sad or depressed, and a lot of that seems to tie to, like, your place.
Paul (10:07.96)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (10:19.629)
Right.
Paul (10:25.974)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (10:29.464)
in your friend group because this one person is using you in some way for their need and you’re accepting it. And that’s a really tricky part of the conversation because neurologically, especially for tweens and teens, they’re right in that neurological mix where they really just want to be accepted. Right? The worst thing that can be happening to them is they’re outcast versus accepted by someone.
Paul (10:50.071)
Right.
Robert Trout (10:58.394)
And that’s the right playing field for bullies and for people with gang mentality and all that kind of kind of process that’s happening where it’s like they don’t want to be alone either. So they’re going to form their group. And if your kid gets sucked into that group, but it’s at the expense of this person’s psychological needs or process that’s happening, then your kid’s going to find themselves in that toxic dynamic and they may not understand it.
Paul (11:11.726)
You
Robert Trout (11:26.042)
And it’s so important for the parent to be like, I just want to offer you that I kind of see this happening. And I’m just curious what your thoughts on that are. Not stop seeing them. It’s no, like tell me what you see and don’t see. And I’m going to offer you what I see, but I’m also going to back off after doing so because I’m going to let you digest it and make decisions about how to do that.
Paul (11:37.251)
Right.
Robert Trout (11:49.422)
And very often, especially the older teenagers, they can reach that point where they can have those deeper meaningful conversations of, I don’t want to hang out with that person anymore. And then the parent says, okay, what would you like to do instead of that? So you open doors for them to realize their own value and worth within the dynamic and that they’re empowered that you don’t have to be that friend. Like the breaking up with friends conversation is really, really a skillful
Paul (12:14.808)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (12:19.238)
process for a parent to pull off.
Paul (12:22.517)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think it’s a very challenging thing to be on the receiving end as a tween or a teen or even a young adult. So being sensitive to that because sometimes, especially post-COVID, friend groups are pretty small. And there can be a lot of, yeah, that, gosh, I’ll just actually take a step back and talk about that sense of rejection.
Robert Trout (12:37.403)
Yes.
Paul (12:49.046)
and how that is a very real experience for a hundred percent of kids across the board. And to think about maybe rejecting somebody, that can be a really challenging notion. Thinking about like trying to push somebody away or separate from somebody. I mean, there’s gotta be some place to go first of all.
Right. Because if their sense of belonging is immediately cut off, because it’s whether it’s a friend group or whether it’s a single friend, and then the rest of the friends kind of dissolve because, you know, game mentality, bullying, you know, all those things are very real dynamics and, man, kids can be pretty cruel. So taking that step back and being cautious in what you’re really bringing forward, not in the sense of like, you need to protect your child because these are all good life experiences.
These kids need to have these life experiences. It’s about them feeling safe enough to have a conversation with you and comfortable enough to trust that they’re okay, that they’re gonna find their place, that this is just a moment, this too shall pass.
Robert Trout (13:44.198)
Yes.
Robert Trout (14:01.37)
Right. Let’s pause for a second because I want to make sure people understand, the listener understands that when we say gang mentality, that’s not about gangs. It’s a psychological reference to the fact that if there’s a void, right, within any like school, you know, the playground at school, if there is a void there where a certain number, you know, two or three individuals are feeling outcast, they seek each other out.
Paul (14:12.974)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (14:30.456)
And then there’s usually a dynamic of power where it’s like, well, we don’t want to be seen negatively. So it starts to be this like, well, we’ll be the leaders and we’re going to start bringing others in who also feel unaccepted or also feel different or whatever like the catch is. There’s always a catch and very often underlying all of it psychologically, there’s the reason of purpose. Like, we’ll take care of each other. Right. There’s our purpose.
And then other kids look at that and they go, that’s awesome. You have other people who will take care of you and they want it. They desire it so badly. It starts to form into that like, okay, now we’re the strong group, right? And it’s just a psychological process that naturally occurs when there’s that void and people need connection. They want connection. Also, yeah, yep. Sports teams. mean, that’s the thing is like organized events.
Paul (15:22.67)
You see it in sports teams all the time.
Robert Trout (15:30.34)
right, are utilizing that mentality to its growth, right? You get the football team together, they’re a family, they’re fighting together, they’re winning, they’re losing together, right? That’s all building off of that. We see the same in any type of like work or competition, even like the athletes that are doing like the mental games or the engineering games or the, whatever it might be. You see that like the group is
Paul (15:30.35)
Hmm.
Robert Trout (15:57.904)
when they get close-knit and they have that leader, usually there’s some kind of leader person who ends up in that category, they start to rally. And that’s where you see immense change, growth, and process for good and bad, right? It can go either direction depending on the influence of the group and the dynamic.
On that note, let’s also make sure that anyone listening to this understands that as the parent, what we’re trying to get at in this conversation is you’re the one watching. You’re witnessing the dynamics and the effect of what your child’s going through at school or in sports or whatever it might be for them, where you’re the one that’s going to have to kind of hold up that mirror for them. It’s like you’re making these decisions and seeing this and
I want you to see that it’s happening, but I want to have the conversation about why. And is this what you really want or not? Because that’s what, especially tweens and teens, they really don’t have the wiring to do with themselves, typically. They need that mirror and reflection and process. So that’s your role in this conversation. Then moving into the recognizing like, I see things are changing and there’s all these different reasons why it might be happening.
from a toxic relationship to a negative peer group to your child’s going through a slow delay, so they’re getting left behind by kids that are advancing more quickly neurologically. There’s so many different scenarios that play out in this conversation, but it always comes down to the parents saying, I’m worried about my kid. And it very often ties to the, the number of friends they have.
Paul (17:29.099)
you
Robert Trout (17:48.464)
And I say ironically because a lot of kids, when you really start breaking down into that, like they’re going through the mush, they’re figuring out their personality, they’re trying on different ways of being. During that process, they might get five friends and lose five friends in a week. Right? They’re changing so quickly and moving through. And the parents, if I had a piece of advice for any listener, stop worrying about the number.
because it’s gonna shift dramatically during those years and that is absolutely normal, it’s number one. And number two, as they really hone in on what matters to them and what their personality foundation is going to be, and let’s just make it really simple, introvert, extrovert, right? We see a lot of parents that really, really struggle that their child only has one friend. And the truth is, is that friend
Paul (18:23.608)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (18:46.556)
they have bonded so more deeply, emotionally connected, whatever it might be, because both were introverts and said, you’re my person. And that kid sometimes is so much more stable when we really get into the dynamics of friendship and connection than the kid who has 50 friends and is depressed because he’s not connected to any of them. Right? So don’t look at the number is the advice and recognize that
Paul (18:58.766)
Thank
Robert Trout (19:15.996)
This kid who has one or two friends? Great. This kid has 20 friends? Great. It’s all just about recognizing the pattern of who your kid might be becoming as they develop into who they think they are. And I say think they are because that’s a big part of this. They think this is who they’re going to be. But that could change at any moment.
Paul (19:39.584)
Yeah, I think another layer to add to this conversation is the recognition that a lot of parents are feeling challenged by witnessing their kids having only online friendships. And having those feel from the outside perspective, trying to understand it’s hard to grasp how does somebody get meaning when it’s just through a headset while you’re playing a video game. And truth be told, those relationships can actually have that.
Robert Trout (19:51.214)
yeah.
Paul (20:09.556)
They are talking about deep life things while they’re playing the game. They are confiding in one another. And sometimes that’s actually an easier thing to do if like you’re not sharing physical space with somebody. You’re not looking into somebody’s eyes. You’re not having to read body language, you know, and we find this most commonly with folks who are neurodivergent, you know, who get fixated in games and who struggle again in those certain nonverbal realms of things.
and taking a step back, sometimes those environments are also toxic. So it is about being curious. What do you gain from this relationship online? How often do you play with this person? What do you guys talk about? You know, creating that space for that curiosity to understand what your child’s receiving, how they’re feeling understood or accepted, right? Cause they can have a relationship across the world that
is so much more meaning than the kid down the street. It’s really fascinating.
Robert Trout (21:11.324)
Yeah. We always find each other. That’s kind of the neurological breakdown of that conversation for families is your kids seeking. And it just so happens that in our world, and like these online gaming systems, et cetera, where they’re plugged in and they’re talking, like they’re building relationship without meaning to sometimes just by playing. You know, that’s the thing is you go 20 years ago, 30 years ago.
Paul (21:14.51)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (21:40.24)
These relationships happen by playing on the field, on the playground, whatever you want to say metaphorically. So it’s the same thing as just a new playground. It doesn’t change the reality that this virtual world feels less real to lot of parents than it does the kids, but this is their playground. So those relationships and bonds form over time. And you’re right. Like it’s one of those like for good or bad.
Paul (21:47.288)
building a tree house. Exactly.
Paul (21:57.868)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (22:08.762)
Like that’s a part of you being the parent and keeping your finger on the pulse of things, of what’s happening. And with the online, I mean, we’ve done an episode in the past on this, but you know, it’s getting into that conversation with your kids, not just about like, okay, who are these kids? How are they your friends? What are you getting out of this, et cetera, but also the online safety. You need to know that sometimes this isn’t real.
Paul (22:14.264)
Robert Trout (22:34.422)
and to be prepared for that and to give them the right questions to ask and to explore and all those type of things as well. So online opens that category of there’s a second job to that, not just the friends part, but the, hey, for your safety, this is something because you’re not on a physical playground and seeing this kid and knowing them as your age or et cetera. So safety is a part of that conversation as well. But swinging back into like the healthy friendships, like we’re really looking at
Paul (22:47.937)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (23:04.068)
this process of the kid understanding that what they need is important. So let’s, let’s kind of switch into what we would say to parents to get them kind of in this zone of working on this with their kids. So for me, it’s looking and saying, okay, you have needs and I know what some of them are, but not all of them. And I’m just curious, how are you getting those needs met from family, from friends, from teachers and coaches and whoever it might be?
Let’s build, like sometimes even write it down. How are we getting our needs met so that you as my child can understand that this is for you to do for the rest of your life? I won’t always be there. So I’m going to show you how to think about the circle of needs and how to get those needs met and who’s doing that and if it’s appropriate in that. That would be step number one for me. Step number two is moving into the empowering language just for every kid.
Paul (23:37.666)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (24:03.728)
where it’s like, you don’t have to be friends with this kid. I’ve had this conversation multiple times with my daughter. She’s 12 right now. It’s a reality conversation of, you know, I want to be a good kid. I want to be liked. I want to, cetera. And, you know, the teachers love me and whatever it might be. it’s like, yeah, but sometimes you can say no because kids want to be good. They want to be accepted. They want to be seen as like not, you know,
Paul (24:25.997)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (24:31.196)
pushing the limits sometimes, et cetera, at that age especially. But it needs to be an open conversation around you can say no and that’s okay. You don’t have to accept that person’s bullying or that language or you don’t have to hang out with them, right? Like you can create space. Like starting young is a great place to really have that conversation of.
Paul (24:46.116)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (24:49.582)
All
Robert Trout (24:56.388)
You can separate from those that do not serve you, and that’s okay. Pause there.
Paul (25:02.24)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what you’re talking about is healthy boundaries, right? Is being able to have that dialogue and understand that boundaries are actually so important as you continue to age into life, right? You know, as you develop relationships, as you go into other school environments, college, you know, or vocational or right into the workforce, being able to have
Robert Trout (25:08.08)
Yes.
Robert Trout (25:17.99)
Yep.
Paul (25:29.824)
assertive language around healthy boundaries. Huge. And if that’s not a skill for you parent, that means that your child is probably suffering from that as well. Okay. So creating the space for you to maybe do your own learning or do your own research about healthy boundaries and have the conversation with them about healthy boundaries and creating that assertive, not aggressive, but assertive communicator.
who can create the space for themselves to feel safe, create the space for themselves to actually develop trust, because healthy boundaries are such a great way to develop trust and a sense of belonging within friend groups. I mean, it’s fascinating when people have healthy boundaries or they are healthy boundaried people, they actually tend to have more rich relationships.
Robert Trout (26:12.742)
Yes.
Paul (26:26.67)
It might be fewer. It might be more. I don’t know. It depends on the person. Introvert, expert, as we said, but ultimately creating that space for them to understand that they can say yes or no.
Robert Trout (26:36.614)
Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And I guess as we head towards the close of this conversation, there’s a reality that I would encourage again, every parent drop the number thing. Instead look towards healthy or unhealthy. Right? And leave room for your child to decide how to handle it. That’s the big part to this that parents are struggling with in my like estimation with them is like,
Well, I just want to tell them they can’t hang out with them anymore. And I go, OK, so you ready for that fight? And they’re like, why is it a fight? And it’s like, because you’re about to remove someone that they think is important to them without, like, you’re trying to control. That’s really what that’s coming into. And tweens and teens especially, you take from them, they’re going to fight back because they’re trying to individuate. So there’s going to be a reaction to those things. I mean, I.
Paul (27:33.742)
Certainly, yeah.
Robert Trout (27:34.556)
I know so many situations where kids start sneaking out after this. And if I trace things back with the parent, go, well, I told them they weren’t allowed to see them anymore. And I go, okay, so what you really told them is that if you want to see them anymore, you have to do it in secret. And the parent is like, what? It’s like, yeah, you tried to take a connection away from them, and that’s why they fight so hard, right?
Paul (28:00.096)
An important connection.
Robert Trout (28:02.896)
And that plays into real life, also online. Very often parents don’t understand that if you take away the video games and you see this reaction that’s just so off the charts, the parent’s like, it’s just a video game. And we have to be that reminder of, no, you took away their friends. The gaming is secondary to the connection that you’re trying to sever.
Paul (28:21.518)
Right.
Robert Trout (28:28.654)
intentionally or unintentionally. So you’re going to see that kind of process unfold. So really the skill is to back up and say it’s time to start teaching. So having conversations about toxicity, having conversations about influence and, and understanding that you still have a choice just because your friend tells you to or encourages you to do something doesn’t mean you have to. It’s a choice to recognize that if you do the thing they’re telling you, there’s going to be a consequence, good or bad.
There’s always a reaction, right? So giving your kid the tools to understand and doing their own assessment of the benefit and the cost of them being in relationship with this person is super important to the development of healthy kids, recognizing that they can say, no, I don’t need that anymore. I’m going to go seek what I need it differently over here, which is very terrifying for those kids, especially teens. It’s like,
If I sever from this group or this person that’s been my like connection and anchor, I’m floating alone now. And there’s such a vulnerability to that. So the parent needs to like encourage and recognize and say, Hey, if you ever find yourself floating, just let me know. I’ll help you move in the direction you want to move, right? Sign you up for sports if that’s what you want to do or, or an art class or whatever it might be. It’s like, I will invest in you seeking what you need.
Paul (29:38.326)
Certainly.
Robert Trout (29:58.02)
Such an important bonding moment in that too when we look at healthy friendships and relationships.
Paul (30:03.52)
Yeah, and I think it’s really opening up that conversation so that they feel safe enough to come to you when they do need that support. And so, you you were saying just a second ago, Rob, this is an opportunity for teaching. And I want to add a bit of nuance to that as an approach. Anytime we’re talking about teaching, we got to watch out for lecturing because you’re going to shut your kid down. You’re going to shut them down and then they’re going to feel like, here comes mom and dad telling me they’re things that I should have known.
Robert Trout (30:25.073)
Yes.
Paul (30:32.138)
And so I want to add on a layer of, you know, sophistication and a parenting sort of lens of things is stepping forward with curiosity and watch out for that curiosity is sounding judgmental, right? Come in with empathy, come in with genuine curiosity to then create the space for them to show up, for them to be truthful about what’s actually happening with.
Robert Trout (30:44.828)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (30:57.486)
Because if they feel like they’re being judged, they’re going to shut you down. It’s a kind of a micro version of them sneaking out. It’s like, well, I’m not going to tell you about my friends because you’re just going to tell me I can’t hang out with them. You’re just going to tell me that they suck. You’re going to tell me that they, they, they’re not right for me when you don’t even understand who I am or who they are to me or the things that we’ve done or the things that we’ve experienced or the things that I’m looking forward to. So approaching with curiosity.
is the foundation for staying in rapport when you’re trying to help them evolve perspective, help them gain that sense of skill building around discernment and self-empowerment. So watch out for falling into the lecturing, watch out for falling into problem solving, or even rescuing them from a situation because ultimately they need to have these life experiences.
Robert Trout (31:50.224)
Yep, that’s how.
Paul (31:50.232)
They need to be able to find their way through these things. And if you can just be there as I think you said earlier, a mirror, if you can just be a mirror, right? Watch it. mean, sometimes the best conversations are the conversations where you’re just listening and you’re not efforting to make a change for them. They’re just coming to their own conclusions.
Robert Trout (32:13.754)
All right, well, thank you for listening. We hope this conversation has elicited some thoughts and some ideas and maybe opened your mind to things to pay attention to that you might have been ignoring. And yeah, come find us at parentrainers.com to ask your questions, join some support groups and take some lessons and coaching and whatever we can do to support you. here for you. And yeah, have a great day.
