Robert Trout (00:01.414)
Hello and welcome to the Parenting Problems Today podcast. Today I’m your host Robert Trout. I’m joined with Paul Arredondo from the Parent Trainers Team. We’re coming today with a topic that most parents when they’ve reached that tween arena start running into and then it kind of sticks with most families and family systems for well the rest of their lives.
So, let’s jump into this episode when we start talking about family dynamics and dating. Okay. And we want to be specific that this isn’t about parents dating or co-parenting or step-parents. That’s not today’s episode. Today’s episode is looking at the dynamics, influences, and some of the roadblocks that families run into, especially when they’re tween.
starts reaching that place of neurological development and behavioral development where they’re interested in starting to date someone. Okay, and we see this come in in so many dynamics that today’s episode is really just the opening conversation for parents to be curious about and to figure out like, well, that’s what I’m running into. I’m glad I’m not alone in this issue or problem or whatever the parent has started to label it.
And this conversation can be very touchy. We’re going to admit that up front because when it comes to dating for tweens and teens and young adults, there are so many dynamics at play within the family system, the religious community and culture around the family.
the community culture in general about where they live and what’s appropriate and not appropriate, and different dynamics that start to play all the way into the parents and their past experiences of dating and heartbreak and all these things that start to come up for them that are very triggering when this dynamic starts to unfold. So we want to begin this episode with that of caveat for everyone to hold.
Robert Trout (02:16.77)
that this is a conversation, it might touch some buttons and that’s okay. This is something that most families end up working through either with someone like us or a therapist or their family, like whatever services they can find because it always happens, always at some level. Now it might happen at nine years old, 10 years old, 15 years old, 21 years old, 29 years old, who knows?
But there’s always a dynamic that opens up for people who are developing and becoming queens, teens, and then eventually young adults, where they start to become interested in this dynamic of, okay, who am I in relation to someone else? And that’s really all we’re talking about here. We’re not talking about marriage and kids and life and whatever that might be. We’re talking about just step number one of someone waking up one day and realizing,
I have these new biological feelings and emotional feelings that are starting to direct themselves towards an individual, a group of individuals, or a heck, sometimes everybody, right? It’s such an explorative developmental time and everyone’s experience is unique. So with that, Paul, let’s jump into this conversation around
Step number one is for the parent to start considering, I ready for this? And is my child ready for this? And I’m gonna kind of pass that to you when we talk about that dynamic. What are some of the things that we see in our work, in your work with families that come up for that?
Paul (04:04.205)
Yeah, I think I want to actually maybe just pause and take a step back and just recognize that like we are a species that’s been around for tens and thousands of years. And if you look at what perpetuates our species is it’s our hormones and our sexual drive and you know the generations continue on. If you look at still places on the planet and about 150 to 200 years ago across the board
humans at the age of 12, 13, 14 were having babies. Biologically, it is so normal to have a sexual drive at that time because it is so instinctual and it perpetuates our species. We in Western culture have kind of like put the kibosh on it, or we’ve been trying. We’ve been trying really hard. And you know how that was for you when you were growing up, right? Take some stock and like reflecting on what your journey was and know your kids are doing that and then some.
Robert Trout (04:36.556)
Yes.
Robert Trout (04:53.762)
Thank
Paul (04:59.726)
Because they are being inundated with all this over-sexualized information from media and so forth. So there is pressure that we didn’t have that they’re experiencing. that being said, parents, are you ready? You’re never gonna be ready. Let’s just say it. You want your…
Robert Trout (05:18.658)
As a parent, you can think you’re ready, but there’s gonna be a twist, right? There’s gonna be a twist. Just expect the twist.
Paul (05:28.885)
Yes. Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And so the twist is, is that your kid’s going to be curious and going to want to explore and it’s going to feel like it’s blindsiding you. Right? And so the thing that we’re really wanted to offer in this conversation is like a little bit of forethought. know, start paying attention a little bit more to like dynamics that you see on the playground or in pure settings or how they’re expressing their interest.
Or if you’re seeing them get all googly eyed in like one arena or another, right? You know, we start to see these behaviors across gender lines. And of course, you know, we want to honor all genders and all sexualities and just notice, just notice, you know, and that’s something that you’re going to hear from us as parent trainers.
across the board for any dynamic is start with curiosity. Be curious about who your kid is, what their interests are, not that you have to drill down into them and interrogate them, yet open your eyes a little bit more, perk up your attention and just notice. Now again, taking a step back, parents, what can you do for yourselves? Well, for one,
Be clear in your co-parenting dynamic where each of you are at, if you, fact, are in a relationship or wherever that lies.
Paul (06:57.76)
Because the two of you or the three of you or the four of you or the half dozen of you caretakers that are trying to support this child. If you can be aligned in the way that you see sexuality or at the very least like appropriate age dynamics and stepping stones. Great. Cause the kids need to hear that clear message. The kids need to hear that consistency. So that would be step one. And that’s on you guys. Right? I mean, we can sit here and talk about, you know, psycho education and blah, blah.
you know, be clear as we can about what we generally see. And just as you said up front, Rob, every family is different. Every culture is different. So be clear about that with yourselves. That’s step number one. How you proceed from there is about having the conversations with your kids. And you know, like I said, Western culture, these kids are inundated with over sexualized information and imagery and so forth. And don’t think they’re naive to it.
you know, start to understand that they’re understanding it at a younger age. That’s just inherent in our culture now, you know, and you guys know this to whatever degree you do. It’s, it’s irreversible. And it’s something that it’s worth meeting with a very direct conversation and sitting down and being not so explicit, but at the very least direct.
Right, being able to have the conversation and you’ll hear me and Rob echo this next sentiment, normalize the conversation. Let them know that it’s okay to have the conversation. Sexuality is natural. That exploration, that curiosity is totally part of development. Go ahead, Rob.
Robert Trout (08:39.798)
And.
Robert Trout (08:44.226)
And in that statement, what we mean by normalizing that is normalizing the concept and normalizing you as a safe person to have these conversations with. Right? That’s a key part of our work is parents are having relational issues or kind of distance or their kids running away because they’re not getting what they want or whatever it might be.
Paul (08:57.271)
Exactly.
Paul (09:07.491)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (09:09.058)
So this conversation is kind of about dating, but it’s also about the dynamic that’s shifting around your kid and the relationship with you because it can go a thousand different directions. And let’s all just take a minute to like take a breath on that. A thousand different directions. So you’re never gonna be a hundred percent prepared.
for anything because you don’t know how your kid’s gonna react, but there are things you can do and that’s where we get to, right? Skills and development. As we look at that, the first skill when it comes to dating is front loading and normalizing these conversations before your kid finds themselves in the midst of like trying to figure it all out. You know, they’re like.
Well, how do I date and do I tell my parents and do I sneak out of the house to go be with them and do I like get in their car because they’re older than me and like all these things are dynamics that we see where a lot of parents, please understand that the skill here is starting early, right? Like nine, 10, 11 years old, maybe somewhere in there where you’re just conversating with your child. And I see success in two different directions with this.
Paul (10:16.622)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (10:25.59)
with the front loading. Step number one is a very direct like, hey, is there anybody in your class you’re interested in? Any of your friends dating? Any of like you’re questioning and like really involving yourself in what your kid is doing in their everyday life. And that leads into the second category that’s very successful when you notice something happening outside of them. Like, hey, I noticed your friend Charlie started like he’s really hanging out with this other person like
Are they dating? And having your kid go, huh, are they dating? What does that mean? How does it like you’re showing them real life examples outside of them. And I do want to put a caveat in here. This is not like, look at these stars in the magazines. Like these really famous people that are dating now. Like, no, no, no. Like real life community members, kids in their grade or ahead of them, an older sibling, like whatever it might be.
your opening discussion about what they see in the dynamics of the people around them all the way to sometimes kids ask about you and your partner. So their parents, you know, mom, dad, my mom, whatever the scenario is, like, so, you you guys have this big fight, like, you know, what does that mean? You know, those kinds of things, because that’s a part of dating.
right? Conflict resolution and looking at open conversation and how to lead through these processes that they’re going to be curious about. Some will ask you, some won’t, but the front loading on the conversations with your kids so that you’re pointing out the things that are going to be important to them later and getting their reflection, offering feedback, and also opening the channel for
Hey, we can talk about these things and it’s not a big deal. It’s normalizing that I’m safe to talk to about all of these things for yourself and your friends and us and like as a family or whatever. Like don’t open that door is what we’re really trying to get to is the skill set here. So front load, front load, front load and normalize yourself in that.
Paul (12:22.166)
Hmm.
Paul (12:40.408)
Hmm.
Paul (12:43.798)
Yeah, and recognize again that they’re getting information from all sorts of different places, right? Even in their school, right? There’s curriculum in darn near every school across the country that talks about sexual education. So be curious about what their exposure has been to before you sat down and engaged them. What have the conversations been like at school? You know, and create that space for them to teach you about what they know. So that’s where Rob was coming in with that idea of curiosity. It’s not about lecturing to them and telling them what they
should know, first find out what they do know. First find out how they feel about it, and whether they’re, you might just tell by their body language or their tone or their blushing face that it’s an embarrassing topic or that they don’t want to talk to you about it. And you might have to just be slow with them and just hold that with them and let them know that that’s okay. Because again, it’s taboo. Our culture doesn’t do this very well. So it’s about it.
Creating the space for the conversation upfront. Creating the space for them to see you as a valuable resource, as a supportive resource upfront.
Robert Trout (13:52.066)
And all of this leads into kind of the next category of this is how to have these conversations and recognize the systems that are impacting the child and you and the outer community around that. Okay, and this is where we get into that kind of touchy piece. Like for example,
Very often if you’re being curious about what your child knows, okay, I’m using air quotes there, what they know. You need to stay non-reactive to what they think they know. That would be my advice and my direction. I try to guide and teach parents how to do and open that conversation where it’s like, interesting. Where did you learn that? And do you think that’s actually true? That’s a great skill set.
Paul (14:44.344)
Great question.
Robert Trout (14:46.506)
Right? Like you gather information and then move through to what do you really believe? Not what you were told, but what you believe. And then from there, we jump into the categories that can get really touchy where now it’s the place of, okay, I would recommend never saying, well, that’s wrong, right? Because they’re interacting with kids at school and things like that. So sometimes a parent will say, well, they’re wrong. It’s like this. No, that the like this.
Paul (14:47.224)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (15:05.293)
right?
Robert Trout (15:15.84)
That’s right for your family, right? So now we’re into that like touchy like for your family and your culture and maybe religious background or beliefs or whatever it might be. You’re handing that back to your kid, whereas that kid needs to understand that if they go back to school and say you’re wrong to this group, they might be removed from that group or lose friends or create conflict and they may not actually understand why those dynamics are starting to happen because
All they were told was that’s wrong and they saw the emotional reaction to that and they’re trying to figure out well where do I fit? Am I with my friends or am I with my parents or etc. Go ahead Paul.
Paul (15:59.776)
Yeah, and the that’s wrong also is probably going to shut them down. It’s probably going to make them pull away. Right? So I think you nailed it, Rob, the non-judgment aspect. You know, so if you’re planning on walking into this conversation, just notice what you’re holding as you walk into it. And if you feel like you’re tense in your chest or your throat, that’s going to come through with your presentation, with your tone and your tempo and all of that, and, you know, soften your facial expression. So it’s that thing of like,
Robert Trout (16:04.47)
Yeah.
Paul (16:28.812)
prepare yourself to have an awkward conversation because your kids are going to feel it. And you know, they’re going to say some stuff that you’re going to be like, where the hell did that come from? being able to tell the, the gift in, in the conversation is them feeling accepted for wherever they’re at. That’s the idea. Right. And because that acceptance is going to help them feel safe enough to stay in the conversation. If they feel rejected in the conversation, they’re going to shut down.
Robert Trout (16:45.377)
Yep.
Robert Trout (16:55.298)
or run away and we get to this later. Like we’re talking about like nine, 10, 11, front loading, all this kind of development of conversation and safety. Let’s kind of tie that to later. In my experience, I think we’re all on the same page within the company here. We see around 13, 14, 15 kids starting to choose like, okay, am I going to be on my parent’s side that told me this is right and wrong? This is how it’s done. Or,
Are my friends right? And I feel the same over here. So that separation starts to happen. And this is where we see a tremendous amount of behavioral change. And very often this is where at least for my family, they’re like, she’s rebelling against us. And I’m like, okay, hold on. She’s rebelling, maybe. And it looks like she’s stepping into what she thinks right now is right or wrong for her.
Paul (17:32.078)
Hmm hmm.
Robert Trout (17:54.294)
And it’s just different than what you told her, what you expected her to step in as what maybe the family believes, et cetera. So we’re really looking at a very traceable path of, I’m getting this at home, I’m getting this at church, I’m getting this at school, I’m getting this at my friend’s house, I’m getting this from social media, I’m getting like…
They are getting so many messages from so many directions that one of the faults I find in the logic that we try to help parents unlock is just because you said it doesn’t mean that’s the direction they’re going to go. That is faulty thinking because they’re getting 19 perspectives, not just one. And this person, as they develop themselves,
even in this category of dating, they’re going to start saying or feeling is where most of the teenagers talk about it. I feel like I just have to be with her. I just have to be with him. I just have to, you know, go this direction because that’s what’s right for them. So we’re seeing that like, OK, the parent thinks they’re rebelling. The child thinks they’re fighting for what they believe in or what they think is right. And it’s just different.
It’s not even rebellion at that point. It’s just, no, this is what’s right for me. And the question for the family system always comes back to, can you hold space for them to try that on? Because so many parents think, well, if they do that, they’re going to be that for the rest of their lives. No, they’re not. They’re going to be like that for six months. And then they’re going to go into the next phase of development and change, et cetera. Now, sometimes they’ll try something on, and it’s just a perfect fit.
that’s their personality or their love language or their style of dating or whatever it might be and you’ll see that for possibly the rest of their life. That is true. And, as a family system, can you hold space for that possibility while knowing that they might try it? And, more often than not, they come out of that and go, and I learned something from that. It’s time to shift again and keep evolving and changing.
Robert Trout (20:14.378)
And the question is, is can the family system hold space for that? That’s at least where I go. What do you think, Paul?
Paul (20:20.864)
Yeah, I think to put a fine point on what you just expressed, Rob, is a lot of parents feel the need to protect, the need to kind of curtail the potential of what is perceived as danger.
Robert Trout (20:34.039)
Yeah.
Paul (20:40.738)
right? Danger of like physical, being hurt, emotionally being hurt, you know, all those things. And those are definitely things to continue to consider. And one of the concepts that we bring forward in moments like this is like, is this an important moment or is this an urgent moment? Is this truly about safety, like physical harm? Or is this something that we can pause and take a step back and say, they’re going to have a little bit of an emotional roller coaster and that’s okay. It’s okay that they feel those
It’s okay that they struggle and they break up. It’s okay that they get confused and maybe come home crying. Of course that’s uncomfortable. Of course that’s challenging to witness your child in distress, a loved one who’s struggling. And just as much as, you know, that is part of the nature of being alive, they need to feel these feelings in order to understand like how they take a good next step.
Like how do they cope with the strain and struggle? How do they cope with the grief and the loss? How do they move forward and like redefine themselves? How do they create the space to cultivate that resilience to reassert and try another relationship, right? And understand that there’s safety in that and that there could be safety in that. So.
Robert Trout (21:54.999)
Hmm.
Paul (22:00.31)
I think oftentimes this is a good opportunity to say like, watch out for rescuing them away from their process or problem solving them and getting too far out ahead of them in their process to the point where they feel trapped and controlled. So again, this is about your family culture. We’re not telling you what you should be doing. We’re just saying,
Robert Trout (22:07.649)
Yes.
Robert Trout (22:18.316)
Yes.
Paul (22:24.908)
be conscious of the decisions you’re making and the container you’re holding them in. Because they can, again, push back on you, withdraw, avoid, whatever the presentation is, you’re setting them up for some patterns right now.
Robert Trout (22:29.666)
Yep.
Robert Trout (22:39.926)
Yep. And let’s kind of wrap that concept up in the sense that if they’re talking to you while going through all of this, you’re already winning. That’s number one. And number two, a warning for every parent out there that sometimes we put our own stuff onto the conversation and you need to own that. So I always encourage statements of this is what’s been true for me.
Paul (22:50.282)
Exactly. 100%.
Robert Trout (23:07.378)
And I’m here to help you figure out what’s true for you. Because there’s a lot of teenagers that feel pressure to be in a relationship. Because somehow that’s going to fix whatever’s going on for them. Because the parents will say things like, don’t worry. Someone else will be there for you or whatever. that’s a, mean, you you’re trying to console them after a heartbreak or something. When in truth, that person may want to step into a place of being solo for a while.
and focusing on themselves and personal development. And that might last forever. They may never want to date or get married or whatever it might be. So to pay attention to the weight of what you’re putting onto them is also important in that and understanding that they might date, they might not. And that either way is okay. It needs to be their choice and their understanding that both are ways of moving their life experience forward.
And what they’re really looking for is would you support me if I went either direction? It’s really what we’re trying to get to here. So.
Paul (24:10.126)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, what I would also, I think it’s a good point to actually interject that your child might have a gender or sexual expression that’s different from the, what we consider just like normative. And so that being said, you know, if you don’t have an understanding of it, or if you don’t have a sense of comfort with it, that’s okay. Get educated, get somebody to support you and you’re supporting them.
Okay, because I think a lot of parents feel at a loss to understanding what their child’s going through, especially if it’s not their lived experience. So being able to be with them in their process sometimes takes stepping back and going, whoa, I don’t get it. And actually being true about that. And watch out for kind of forcing again, just as you said, Rob, forcing your experience on them. know, telling them, it’s just a phase or assuming that, you know,
I don’t know what you might assume, but just be conscious of what that might be. And again, recognize that you’re impacting them, you know, because it could be a phase or it could be the rest of their lives.
Robert Trout (25:18.722)
Yep, absolutely. All right, well, let’s kind of step into that final arena that you kind of touched on, but open the category of safety, right? Because there’s a lot of buttons that get touched as we talk through this conversation. And safety is one of those that a lot of families have to go through a struggle. And very often, they’re working with someone like us to help just facilitate the conversation through the struggle.
And this gets into dating leading into sex and sexual expression and the safety elements of that tie together. And we just have to admit that to everybody. We need to be very present in the conversation that if someone starts dating, if your child starts dating, I don’t know a lot of parents who are saying, my God, I’m so terrified that they’re spending time with someone else.
That’s not what you’re really scared of as a parent. What you’re scared of is all the things you’ve seen, heard, experienced, had your family experience, friends experience, all the stories weigh in on you of all the horrible things that happen to other human beings. It is important on two fronts. One, just because those horrible things happen to you or someone you knew or you heard it from a newscaster, etc., that doesn’t mean that’s going to be the experience for your child.
We need to build a healthy separation and recognize that your job is to teach them how to date and how to be aware, right, without scaring them. So, how to date is this category that when we talk about safety looks at things as simple as, if you’re going out with someone, just send me a text and let me know when you’re going and when you’re going to be back.
the check-in is a part of that safety. Then you’re looking towards sexual health and responsibility of things like that, where as a family, we see conflict come in a lot where it’s like, okay, what are the family’s beliefs or openness to birth control or condoms or all those types of things. And having that conversation with your child, recognizing the impacts of
Robert Trout (27:37.664)
both the doing those things and the not doing those things. How to have those conversations is directly tied to safety in opening that up and for me front loading it and then leading into them being able to ask you about it without a reaction that shuts them down but opens up the conversation of why is it necessary? What’s your goal here? You know, all these things that come in. So,
It’s keeping the safety conversation open on the levels of check-ins, recognizing that your child does need to understand about online predators, for example, and individuals who are older than them, or self-protection in the sense of like a mace or a safety device they can fight back with if they needed to, or all the way up to…
Paul (28:18.412)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (28:31.202)
Systems on you know their phone where you can track them and they know you’re tracking them these are all things that come up in these conversations around dating and safety Paul anything you would add to that like what comes up when you’re working with a family on the safety aspects of this
Paul (28:52.812)
I would say that one interesting aspect would be don’t feel like you’re the only one who needs to have a conversation with them. Again, it’s happening at school, it’s happening within their peers, so make sure that they’re…
actually hearing it from somebody that they respect, somebody that they actually can cultivate their own safety with, because maybe they don’t want to have the conversation with you. That might be real. And so creating the space for them to have a resource, have some support. If it’s not you, somebody you know, like another mentor. mean, again, it’s a taboo concept, a taboo…
experience in our culture, unfortunately. So it is sensitive and being able to facilitate support is just as much as your personal interaction.
Robert Trout (29:41.41)
Yeah, absolutely. So I guess what I want to close that out with is that safety isn’t the small subject. You know, I know we just talked about it for a couple of minutes. Safety is two parts. One, this category of safety is what you’re really afraid of as a parent. And your work is to step back from the fear, recognize what you want to teach.
Paul (29:50.382)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (30:10.27)
your children so that they are safe. Not that you’re going to make them safe. You’re going to teach them what a lot of families step into, whereas like the common sense thoughts of things to do before, during, and after a date of recognizing safe sex and unsafe sex about recognizing safe and unsafe situations.
that the kid may not know about unless you’ve given them things to think about or recognize as red flags in those scenarios. And then the second category to that is, okay, I’ve stepped back and I’m teaching. And then the safety aspect of, okay, let my child lead me into what they may or may not do. And I’m going to work to stay safe in that conversation.
which is, you know, taking the full circle in this conversation, Paul, back to normalization.
Paul (31:12.761)
Yeah.
And I mean, we want to just make this a very quick overview. And of course there are things like codependency or trauma within relationship or living out patterns of, you know, things that they’ve witnessed or seen in their younger years. these are all deeper conversations that I would encourage you to again, educate yourself on, give us a call, check in with us about like perspectives and things of that nature, you know, seek the support again, not just as I said a moment ago.
like solicit support from other adults and respectful people for your child do the same for yourself.
Robert Trout (31:54.57)
Absolutely.
All right, well thank you for listening. As always, come find us at parenttrainers.com and join our community and ask your questions and find people who are going through all of this. mean, no one’s alone in this as a parent. So we look forward to supporting you in the future and I hope you enjoyed the episode.
Paul (32:08.846)
Mm-hmm.
