Robert Trout (00:01.307)
Hello and welcome to the parent problems today podcast where we explore different topics and subjects and situations that families run into today. I’m your host Robert Trout joined by Paul Arredondo from the parent Trainers team. And we have a subject that we’re going to look at that’s really very, very broad. Like this can go in a lot of different directions, but it comes up for almost any family that’s raising a teen tween young adult.
where they’re going through a cycle of growth through their family system. Things are changing. Their kids are acting in regard to what they want, their desires, their individuating. There’s all these processes unfolding. And so what we want to talk about today is the subject of like getting to know your real kid. And this really ties into kind of the relational idea of
I mean so many directions such as families parents specifically assuming about their kid They think they know them. They think they understand them. They think they know what is real and not real for them and Just within that category alone. There are so many situations that cause conflict and set families up for I mean just so much stress and
gonna just God, don’t I mean, God, Paul, this goes into something so huge, where this kid is individuating. And there’s this, for me, it’s really going to come down to a sense of safety. Because this kid is either expressing themselves, talking, and sharing who they are becoming, or they’re hiding elements of that, because of usually fear or
Paul (01:33.208)
Challenges, lots of challenges, yeah.
Robert Trout (01:58.691)
Not understanding what parents are open or not open to in several regards. So I’m going to pause there because this is such a huge thing and we kind of pass it to you Paul like where does this subject go for you when we start talking?
Paul (02:13.986)
Yeah, I think there’s something to be said for taking a huge step back and saying our kids are inundated with a ton of information. You know, whether it’s exposure to social media or just their peer culture or what have you, or gosh, it’s endless these days. I mean, even video games are quote unquote teaching our kids how to communicate, how to be, how to interact. And so I think
It’s lost upon parents because we didn’t grow up with all of this information that these kids developmentally are making leaps and jumps more just advanced in that way of maybe not developmentally advanced, but exposure, just sheer exposure. And so one of the things that I think is really important as we dive into this conversation is recognizing how that exposure changes their perspective.
changes even some of their behaviors and changes how they see the world, how they perceive interactions, how they frame their values and ethics. As much as we would hope that the family system is framing trust, honesty, authenticity, work ethic, accountability, responsibility, all these family values, they are just being projected upon nonstop. And one of the things that gets lost in the mix is that parents
As you said earlier, Rob, feel like they actually have a pretty solid grasp on who their kid is. And especially as your kid’s coming into a teenager, young adult sort of experience. And as you said, they’re individuating basically meaning they’re trying to be independent. They’re moving away from family towards their peer structure. They’re trying to claim some sort of role in their environment outside of the family system. They are.
going to just naturally not share as much. And the trap of that, and we often refer to it as the assumptive trap, is that parents believe they know their kids. And when they start to see things shift for their kids, they pounce on them and they start to say things like, well, you need to be, you have to be, you should be, how come you’re not? And those frameworks can be supportive if first you’re curious.
Paul (04:43.274)
If first you’re stepping in and going, hey, tell me why, tell me what you were thinking, help me understand where that behavior came from. Cause this is different. Right. And you know, when parents are seeing those differences, again, we start to hear things from parents like, my God, my kid’s starting to, and I think it’s going to be in a, we’re concerned that they’re going to move towards, you know, and we’d be talking about like addiction through technology or substance use or, you know, getting mixed in with a quote unquote wrong.
Robert Trout (04:43.952)
Thank
Robert Trout (04:49.584)
Thank you.
Robert Trout (05:03.344)
Thank you.
Yep.
Paul (05:12.952)
crowd or they’re moving away from the idea of following through with things either in the home environment or scholastically. so, parents see behavior changes and they get very reactive. And so, that’s the heart of this conversation is being conscious that your child is going to change and it’s your job to track that change, to be curious about that change, to normalize your curiosity with them.
Robert Trout (05:24.196)
Okay.
Robert Trout (05:29.593)
it is.
Paul (05:41.326)
not in an interrogative fashion, but more about like staying connected to them. Because if you are working from what we refer to as the assumptive trap, meaning, oh, I know what my kid’s gonna say if I ask him that question. Oh, I know what they’re gonna do if I say this or that or the other. Oh, I already know how they’re feeling about, you know, school or that friend or the idea of going and cleaning their.
Robert Trout (05:41.349)
Yes.
Paul (06:06.764)
You actually don’t. And that idea right there is one of the biggest hurdles for any parent to actually overcome. Because the truth of it is, with any human on the planet, you’re maybe hearing 15 to 20 % about what’s actually going on in their head, even if they’re talking to you nonstop. If they’re talking to you nonstop, they’re still filtering.
Robert Trout (06:08.74)
No. End.
Robert Trout (06:27.577)
you
Robert Trout (06:32.538)
Yeah.
Paul (06:32.61)
They’re filtering their language, they’re filtering their presentation, they’re trying to be seen in a certain light, creating the space to understand for yourselves that you do this too. Your kid’s gonna do this. And again, when we use this framework of Assumpta Trap, really what we’re talking about is you’re robbing yourself of the understanding of who your child is. You’re cutting off the opportunity to learn more about
how they use language, how they see the world, who they are in relationship to their peers, to you even, to their siblings, to the home environment. So being able to pause and take a step back and slow down your reactivity when you see something new or something that feels uncomfortable for you, that’s a skill that every single parent we hope continues to work on for themselves, especially as your teen gets older, you’re gonna need that one.
doing that as a first step and then approaching with some curiosity that allows them to feel safe enough. You use the word safety earlier Rob, for them to feel safe enough to open up to you. So being a little patient when you’re asking the questions, checking your tone and making sure that you’re not sounding judgmental when you’re being curious about how it was for them to go and hang out with their friends, what it was like for them to go and spend the night with somebody or a different family.
what it was like for them to go and have the first baseball practice or, you know, go and interact with their, mentor or a music teacher that they had a falling out with previously. You know, all of these situations are about creating the space, creating the space for them to be willing to be a bit more open, be a bit more honest, be a bit more authentic. So again, when you’re having.
Robert Trout (08:19.973)
Yeah.
Paul (08:29.378)
more more conversations with them, you’re actually doing it from a place of a historical reference rather than you making assumptions about what you think you see, what you think you know, what you’ve heard just maybe once two weeks ago, two months ago. So it’s about slowing down and creating that space to be curious.
Robert Trout (08:45.518)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (08:52.353)
Yeah, and I want to be clear to any parent that’s listening to this that there’s several underlying factors here and When we see conflict at least for me I very often see that the pattern came from a place of the parent They might be really curious, but the answers scare them So fear takes over and then the parent sets up a dynamic of control
rather than relationship. And when you try to control the change for a tween or a teen, you’re going to accomplish two things guaranteed. One, you’re going to get them to take space from you and push you away because they don’t want to be told how they feel or what to do or any of that respect. So you’re guaranteed some form of that reaction. You’re also guaranteed
Paul (09:21.4)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (09:47.405)
an element where you don’t create a sense of relationship with them. You become the person who’s trying to tell them who they’re supposed to be. And I mean, I can’t think of a faster way to destroy relationship than to become the control element in anybody’s life. Whether it’s a kid, an employee, it doesn’t matter. Any human that feels someone else telling them
Who they’re supposed to be how they’re supposed to dress what they’re supposed to do how they’re supposed to talk whatever Dynamic there is there that element shreds relationship short-term and long-term And it takes so much more work to repair relationship Than it is to establish relationship in the beginning so much work so I just want every parent hearing this to understand that and
I want to step into something you were saying that made me laugh because there’s this element where, you know, it really is about these kids, right? Tweens, teens, like that developmental stage, and some young adults who are trying to develop their language. And I laugh because in the beginning of that, right? Like 10, 11, 12, 13, et cetera, you’re going to get a lot of, don’t know, and it was good. And that’s the end of the emotional conversation for them.
Paul (11:09.176)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (11:14.224)
And I’m going through this personally with my kids. I’m like, okay, this is hilarious. Because there is an element of like, okay, developing that language where instead of telling them how they feel or et cetera, really leaning in to the skills that I know we teach and others kind of look at around language and formulating questions that automatically set you up for more of a response than yes, no, maybe. Right?
Paul (11:24.334)
All
Paul (11:43.042)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (11:43.697)
It’s looking and saying okay instead of saying hey, how was school today? It’s saying hey Tell me three things that surprised you at school today or tell me something that happened to a friend of your yours that you’re trying to make sense of today questions like that that open story Are so much more impactful in the beginning because it gives them the chance to really try on
telling these stories about what they’re witnessing, what they’re experiencing, what they’re feeling, all of this type of work. So if we’re going to step in this conversation to skills, I’m going to say that’s the beginning point for everybody is for the parent to take what they’re worried about and back it off and say, OK, how can I get them thinking about this in a productive manner about problem solving or looking at safety or whatever it might be?
So what can I participate in in conversation with them that allows for our stories to start to interact with each other? And then keeping in mind the golden rule. If you ask them a question and you’re eliciting story, the golden rule is this for every parent, it doesn’t matter the age, it doesn’t matter. Do not react to the story.
As soon as you react to the story that your child is telling from an emotional reactive place from your life, you’re eliciting a negative reaction of their part saying like, well, I guess I wasn’t supposed to say that to you. I guess I wasn’t supposed to tell you all of what I just told you when we’re developing relationship. That’s the golden rule because you have to create that open space.
for them to just tell you what’s real for them in their life, in their friends lives, in their school process, et cetera. I mean, this topic really is massive because when we talk about getting to know your real kid, so much of that is making room for them to be exactly what they are without you trying to put on that expectations or reaction or emotional context saying like, you’re wrong.
Robert Trout (14:06.562)
about what you just told me about how you feel about that. You should be this. So we just have to open that playing field and say like, okay, we’re not gonna react. Our job is to develop relationship and to learn about them. And then if there’s something to be addressed, that happens later. In the moments of connection, that’s only about connection. That is the only goal here.
Paul (14:06.915)
huh. Right.
Paul (14:12.194)
Hmm hmm hmm.
Robert Trout (14:34.434)
is to make room for back and forth reciprocity where they’re telling you about their lives. You’re probably going to have to say something about your life, but your work and your friends and your, your day, you know, whatever level we want to look at. There’s a level of you demonstrating and allowing them to see the authenticity you’re showing up with understanding that they may say things like, that doesn’t make any sense or God, that sounds stupid or whatever.
Paul (14:43.512)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (15:04.218)
Teenage reaction they’re gonna have and that’s okay You let them have space for reaction because they’re not where you’re supposed to be especially if they haven’t I Guess develop neurologically their prefrontal cortex isn’t done developing all that kind of stuff You have to give them space to be worse at this that you can be but with practice you can lead so much room into developing your relationship
Because you’re the one that has the capacity to do that. There is a huge responsibility there. Thoughts on that?
Paul (15:39.254)
Yeah, yeah, I love that golden rule, that non-reactivity. And oftentimes, I think that’s where parents really get caught up and break trust, break relationship, have that sense of, you know, as you were saying, the child withdrawing from them. And so, again, thinking about it through the skills lens, if you are thinking about engaging your child,
or you’ve tried doing this and you know that it’s hard for you to not react because maybe your kid’s already into some behaviors that you’re really frustrated by, you’re really irritated by, you’re very anxious about or fearful of. One of the things that I would encourage you to do is if you know you’re about to engage in that conversation, pause, check in with yourself. Notice if you’re starting to feel your gut get wrenched, your chest get tight, your throat close up.
your forehead start to tense because all those things make this sound come out, right? You know, so when it comes to being able to be with your child, they need to understand that you’re trying to actually be with them. And what that means is, and the term we often use is co-regulation. Co-regulation is making sure that your nervous system is calm enough for them to feel safe. And what that looks like externally is that your face is soft.
Your tone is somewhat neutral, if not curious and empathetic. You’re in a body language position that allows them to like receive your curiosity. You’re not like leaning in and looking through your eyebrows at them. You’re actually leaning back and maybe even not so much reclined, but relaxed because really if they start to feel your sense of urgency or your reactivity, or they start to feel you.
meaning again, that’s wrong. I don’t like that. You need to do differently or you interrupt them mid story and tell them why, you know, or ask why did you do that? Or I don’t understand or you know, things of that nature. What you’re doing is again, causing a broad cavernous space between the two of you. So it takes
Paul (18:06.19)
parent that takes a loving parent and an intentional parent to stay connected in this process, right? To slow down enough because it has to start with you in order for them to feel safe because if they don’t feel safe, they’re not going to open up. And so again, take a big step back.
Robert Trout (18:21.306)
Yeah.
Paul (18:31.502)
Creating the opportunity for these conversations is what I hope is the biggest message that you walk away with. Watch out for the assumptive trap because you’re going to cut yourself off from the opportunity of learning about who your child is. Watch out for the reactivity because you’re in a future moment, they’re not gonna wanna reengage. And I just mentioned all this idea of presentation, tone, facial expression, body language, and so forth.
Robert Trout (18:45.125)
Yeah.
Paul (19:02.002)
And I would also encourage you to think of set and setting. And what that refers to is like, where in your house do you have this conversation? Do you have this conversation while you’re driving in the car? Maybe try and avoid the spaces and the timing where arguments typically start to erupt. Maybe create a more novel experience, like you’re going on a walk with them.
Robert Trout (19:03.568)
Thank
Paul (19:30.584)
with the dog that you maybe haven’t done in the past. You’re going and taking them grocery shopping with you, or you’re taking them out to a one-on-one lunch. But create the space for it. Because I think one of the things that gets lost on parents is, again, especially in Western culture, we’re always rushing from one thing to the next. We’re always pushing, pushing, pushing.
And I can only imagine that the majority of the folks listening to this podcast way at the beginning, they’re like, I don’t got time for this. What do you do? What do you mean sit down and talk with my kid? I have this, this, this to do. Nobody else is cleaning the house. Nobody else is paying the bills. Nobody else is, you know, and so there is this edge in that framework that every parent comes up against of like, how the hell do I fit this in? Because if I open the door,
Robert Trout (19:54.906)
Thanks.
Robert Trout (20:02.186)
Hahaha
Paul (20:23.992)
How do I even close that conversation? Right? Like, if I, I know my kid well enough to know if I give them the floor, they’re going to take it and they’re going to run with it. And then I have to listen to them for how long? So part of the art of your curiosity is being able to transition into a next, phase in the day, being able to close the conversation. And oftentimes a very assertive and clear form of communication to create that transition is all that’s necessary.
And a basic formula of that is give a reflection of where the conversation has been. Wow. It’s really awesome to hear about you talking about your friends and your experience you had. And I mean, it’s really cool to hear that, you know, such and such had this experience with you and you really enjoyed that aspect. And, know, man, I, yeah, thanks for this conversation. And actually, you know, right now I need to go and start on dinner. If you want to come in and help me cook, that’d be great. But you know,
I’m going to go in and jump into that. And if you want to keep telling me stuff, we can go do it in there, right? Or if you got a transition to work, make sure you give yourself a buffer. Like if you need to transition at 1130, be done, try and be quote unquote done with the conversation by 1120. So you can make your transition and maybe you can kind of expand the time with them beyond, you know, that 1120 mark, but creating the space to really hear them out and,
Robert Trout (21:29.208)
and we’ll be right
Paul (21:54.232)
honor them in their journey. Because when we actually create space for them, they light up. You’ve seen this. Every parent sees this. there is an opening, excuse me, when there’s an opening for a child to share something they’re excited about, gosh, it’s a beautiful thing. And it’s challenging to have them open up to something that they’re not so excited about, that maybe they’re anxious about, that maybe they start to feel…
Robert Trout (22:04.521)
Yes.
Paul (22:23.896)
hesitant about sharing. And so you got to do both of those. You got to hear them out in the good stuff in order to create the space for hearing them out in the challenging moments. And again, it is really about creating that space.
Robert Trout (22:38.392)
Yeah, and there is so much room in the dynamic that I hope families are hearing what we’re saying and saying, okay, the real lesson here is to not assume that I know everything about my kid and to work. Hear that to work at developing a relationship that is not
Paul (22:54.338)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (23:07.522)
parent to child, but is human to human. So that you become someone that they can look at in that human capacity and say, dad is dad and dad is safe to talk to. Mom is mom and mom is safe to talk to. She’s human. She can understand the human struggles I’m having. So we’re really at its core looking at normalizing
Paul (23:12.003)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (23:36.761)
relationship outside of the structure, boundaries, consequences, and all the things that are also a part of being a parent. The relationship is equal, if not more important in some cases, than all those categories of things you’re going to have to do as a parent. And over the long game, moving into like young adulthood, I can’t tell you the value.
Paul (23:42.478)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (23:46.435)
Right.
Robert Trout (24:05.208)
I mean, it’s astronomically like calculated looking at this idea of like the, young adult who’s trying to learn how to launch into being adult. The value for those kids that have the, any form of conversational relationship with their parents, even just one parent or a grandparent or someone that they can turn to and say, Hey, I never learned about this. I’m confused or I’m sad or I’m scared.
because apparently I’m supposed to go do this now and I don’t know how to do this. Or I found something that I thought was lots of fun, but now I’m struggling because it’s kind of taken over. It’s all I want to do. You know, looking at addictions and all that kind of stuff. Like we’re really looking at if they were in trouble because they’re starting to wake up, they’re starting to see that there’s struggles as an adult human.
that they need to navigate through relationships, through work, money, school, life, structure, all those things. They have that safety that they can turn back and say, Hey, I miss something and I need some support. And to have that parent or a family member or someone in their lives able to stand up and say, I’ll hold space for you and I’ll answer questions and guide you as you figure out what’s going to work for you. Not, I’ve got
the answer. It’s very much about guiding and relationship develops out of that. So I’m going to throw out my final thoughts and then I’ll pass it to you Paul and you can kind of close us out here. But when we talk about getting to know your real kid, my final thought to any parent that’s listening to this is that if you find yourself completely focused on the mental health strategic life
Paul (25:33.442)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (25:38.914)
Yeah.
Paul (25:47.342)
Sure.
Robert Trout (26:00.869)
like things that are bearing you as a person with your kid, your whole family, with work, with et cetera. There’s this moment that I’m gonna say, okay, breathe and ask yourself when the last time was that you looked at your kid as a human being and said, I’d like to know something that’s real about you.
And that’s really all we’re going to talk about in this conversation is if you’re not having that momentary thought, today’s gift from us to you is the reminder that that is the most important thing you can do today and tomorrow is to take that five minutes, that 20 minutes, that hour, whatever you have and say, I’m not going to yell at you about your homework today. That’s not what I’m going to do. I’m going to spend 20 minutes.
Paul (26:53.09)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (26:58.02)
Getting to know something about you that I don’t know. Something that’s changed internally or in your life or in your goals or dreams. I’m going to spend this time getting to know you. So take your breath. Step in with curiosity and openness, nonreactive openness, and just learn something about this human being and forget about the fact that they pissed you off today.
That would be my closing thought. Paul, what do you have?
Paul (27:34.902)
I like to just speak to the parents who feel like they’ve already lost their child, who feel like their child is beyond normalizing conversations like we’re suggesting and, you know, encouraging every single one of you out there to stay the course of authenticity, of curiosity, and try on vulnerability.
Robert Trout (27:40.4)
Hmm.
Paul (28:04.482)
Because if you’re not telling a little bit about yourself, why would they share? If you’re not, I mean, you don’t need to like trauma dump on them or stress dump on them or whatever the language you want to use. It’s not about like becoming an open book. It’s about being real, being human. It’s about slowing down enough to let them see you so that
That becomes normal. And you might have to do that a half dozen times before they share one iota about what’s happening underneath the surface for them. So you’ve heard it said, and if you’ve listened to any of our other podcasts or episodes or done any of our trainings, you know, don’t try this just once and then say, it didn’t work. Right. You you have to stay the course, you know, something you said earlier, Rob is why this came forward is you’re playing the long game.
What’s the conversation you hope to have with your 28 year old son or daughter, your 42 year old son or daughter who are now having kids and you want to hang out with their children and your grandchildren? What’s the conversation you want to have then about life, about being real, about the stress and about the organization of self and other? Those are the conversations that I want to encourage you to start trying to have.
Don’t expect success. Don’t expect them to like melt and open up. And then all of a sudden everything’s going to be sunshine and roses. Cause you know, that’s not life. It’s about creating the space to ultimately get there. And it’s going to take time and it’s going to take effort. it’s going to take intention and you know, it’s going to take some sustaining a new behavior. So.
If you want to talk more about the skills of grounding yourself in order to sustain a new behavior, please reach out to us. If you want to talk about how your kids pissing you off and you want to get beyond the focal point of that irritation and that struggle and strain, reach out to us because ultimately, you know, our hope for any single family is that, you know, you’re leading with your heart and you’re open to one another and
Paul (30:28.606)
foundation there’s trust and respect.
Robert Trout (30:33.168)
Well said. Yeah, and please come find us, join our community, do one of our six week intensive trainings and build a plan for working with your loved one that’s struggling. You can find us at parenttrainers.com and we hope to see you there.
