Robert Trout (00:01.592)
Hello and welcome to the Parent Problems Today podcast. Your host today, myself and Paul Arredondo from the Parent Trainers Team are coming to you with a topic that comes up for a lot of families who are trying to turn things around, especially in our situation, I think for the teenage population. But this can go for tweens and young adults as well. It just depends on the circumstance. Today’s topic is looking at the missed opportunity
of mentoring. And this topic goes both directions. And I’ll explain that as when a family is stepping into a situation, especially if a kid is struggling, when this might be steps before we really look at like a mental health process, but that’s why it comes up a lot during teenage process where they’re really kind of, you know, establishing their independence and they’re looking for space and all that kind of work. And then there’s that underlying
Paul (00:44.434)
you
Paul (00:54.492)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (00:58.75)
search also for meaning and purpose and kind of the job or role that they’re going to play in their family or system. All of this comes up around mentoring because so many families miss this opportunity. They just don’t think about it. So today we want to talk through this subject and just kind of touch on the basics that we get into with families about recognizing this as a really amazing tool in both directions.
So direction number one, let’s just start there, usually it comes up in conversation around like, okay, my kid’s individuating and they’re pulling away from me. So they’re pulling away from mom, they’re pulling away from dad, they’re pulling away from everyone else in the family usually during that time. And in that, the missed opportunity is this like, okay, well, if they’re pulling away,
That doesn’t mean you’ve lost influence over where they step into as they step away from you. And mentorship is one of these amazing kind of faceted, like you can custom design sometimes who, what, when, why this person, this kid steps into a role or a practice or sometimes a job or whatever it might be that fulfills a lot of their angst and what they’re looking for in that. So
When we have a kid stepping away from the parents and the family system, and we look at this as an opportunity to set up mentoring for them, let’s talk, Paul, like what are some of the first or initial ideas that come up in conversation around like, okay, what have you considered family about where they’re going? What comes up for that?
Paul (02:43.41)
Well, I think a good point of consideration is evaluating the child’s sense of belonging. How connected do they feel outside of the family system, whether it’s peer groups or what have you, because they might already have some things that are very functional for them. It’s about building more or expanding upon them, whether it be like gaming or going to, I don’t know, a local coffee shop.
I mean, it could be anything, sports team and what have you, and being able to expand the responsible, healthy adult presence in their life can… I mean, what often it’s referred to as is a protective factor, right? And so a healthy mentor is a protective factor, helping them develop, helping them develop skills, helping them to see things through the eyes of somebody who is mature.
Robert Trout (03:30.638)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (03:41.402)
supporting skills like discernment and so forth. that is something to be reflective on. Like what does my child need right now? Where are they maybe in their deficits? Maybe it is perspective. Maybe it is the development of empathy. Maybe it’s something in terms of just healthy relationships and interpersonal skills. So who is this mentor? Because it can come from any which direction. It could be a music teacher. It could be an art teacher. could be somebody who is a neighbor.
It could be a parent of a friend of theirs. No stone left unturned is what we often say is, you know, explore it through all facets because there are adults who want to connect with your child. There are young adults who could be wonderful influences for your son or daughter. So that’s kind of what I would say. How would you add to that, Rob?
Robert Trout (04:18.605)
Yes.
Robert Trout (04:31.32)
Thank
Robert Trout (04:36.344)
Well, for me, very often the conversation begins with the family of me being the first person to ever say, well, where are they naturally being driven towards? If they’re stepping away from you and you’re concerned because this idea of mentorship usually comes up because as well, they’re not going to listen to me. So who would they listen to? Right? So there’s the concern or the problem. And then I’m the first person to step in and say, well, okay, well, where are they going?
Paul (04:45.862)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (05:04.11)
because they’re going somewhere, they’re naturally being drawn towards a group, a practice, whatever it might be. And that’s the first starting point for me is like, okay, don’t try to put them into something that they’re not naturally drawn towards, because that’s just setting up the table. It’s like, well, they should do sports. And it’s like, have they ever done sports? No, but I did when I was a kid. Okay, hold on, slow down. Your kid’s not you.
And we need to separate this out. So the real conversation for me always starts with, okay, where are they going? Now, usually you get one of two answers. There’s outliers always, but usually it’s a peer group they’re moving towards or a topic centered thing such as, you know, gaming or Magic the Gathering or, you know, they’re building little cars to race or, you know, they have an interest or a hobby. So if it’s an interest or a hobby,
I usually get the parents into the like, okay, start talking to all of your adult friends and finding out who is also in that as an adult, a young adult, or sometimes looking towards that peer. And I say that because I’ve had several situations where, you know, the kid that they’re concerned about is like 12 or 13. They’re starting puberty. They’re starting to individuate. All those normal things are happening. And I’ll even say to the parent, it’s like, okay, great.
within your friend group or family. Like sometimes it’s a cousin, but that cousin’s 17 and they’re like, well, he’s 17. And it’s like, yeah, but is he doing all right? Isn’t it all right? He does some stupid stuff, but is he headed in a direction that you’re not that concerned about? Yeah, I guess so. I mean, he’s okay. Great, let’s start there, right? It’s like finding the family member, the connection, whatever it might be, this tide already to the direction that your kid is moving is where I usually start that conversation.
If it’s a peer-oriented process that the kid’s being drawn to, that’s a little bit different because there’s not a topic to latch onto, a hobby to really center on. So very often that conversation turns in, okay, who are those kids and what are they into? And is your kid participating or watching? So that’s a very data-centered starting point is.
Robert Trout (07:25.078)
figuring out what they might be drawn to in that circumstance. Now, sometimes that’s dangerous. Absolutely. They’re drawn into a crowd like this is the crowd at school that they’re doing drugs every day. Yeah, okay. We need to be a little more proactive in this when, you know, that’s when we get into conversations about boundaries and the conversation about building rapport with a teenager and all that kind of stuff. But separate from that, looking back at our main topic today and mentorship,
That is where I also get into like, okay, do you have a kid that used to be one of those kids and now they’re 17, 18, 19 that you could start having them over for dinner, right? Like just inviting someone that’s made it through the challenges that you’re predicting for your kid that you can start bringing into your family dynamic in a normal way.
You have to be really careful. Like, don’t set it up like they’re here to tell you how awful this is going to be. It’s like, no, don’t tell either one of them. Just bring them over and let them start building relationship naturally with each other to have those conversations. But yeah, that’s where the conversation very often starts for me. What thoughts come up as I say all that on target, not on target. What do think?
Paul (08:45.67)
I think it’s certainly on target because, you, you mentioned this sort of in passing, but I think it’s really important to take a step back for a moment and really reemphasize why mentorship is so valuable, especially to a preteen teen and young adult is that your child is no longer listening to you. Your child is individuating. And in fact, it’s actually so healthy that you give them an opportunity to learn from somebody else. So stop lecturing, stop trying to be the teacher.
Robert Trout (09:03.938)
Yes.
Paul (09:14.352)
Right? Actually transition towards curiosity. And that’s some of what you also spoke to Rob is be curious about what they like. Be curious about who they’re hanging out with. Be curious about where they’re going. So if you lead with curiosity, you’re going to be in such a better situation to be able to attune to your child, stay connected to your child. And I mean, maybe explore their common interests with them, but of course not side by side, but just familiarize yourself with what they’re into.
so that you can have a conversation with them and stay connected with them while they’re being mentored or being in their peer group and so forth.
Robert Trout (09:50.7)
Yeah, yeah, and you’re absolutely right. Like this is a two part process. Finding a mentor is not, I’m done with you, goodbye, go let them teach you. That’s not what we’re talking about today. This is very much a, I’m gonna build my team and they might not even know they’re on the team, but I’m helping influence the people that are now starting to come in to support the whole of our family system. That’s the parental mindset in addition to.
Paul (10:01.638)
Right.
Robert Trout (10:18.398)
I still have to do my work and build rapport and hold the boundaries and teach and do all that. But I know by doing that, my kid’s going to try to step away from me because I mean, what kid, what teenager likes rules and structure, et cetera, even though they thrive in it, you know, it’s their job to push against the boundaries and find out what’s real and not real. So you still have to do your job. And the mentorship idea is like, okay, I need to build my team and invite the influences.
Paul (10:35.078)
Right.
Robert Trout (10:47.48)
that will subtly take us through these teaching methods. So as we go through that, I guess let’s step back for a minute. The power of a mentor, let’s kind of step into why we’re having this conversation. The power of a mentor is that they take on part of the responsibility or the emotional load of being a safety net for your child. This is someone that you’re…
giving the responsibility to and like I said, sometimes they don’t even know you’re doing it. You’re just inviting them in because you know that they’ll serve a role within your family and community and process and you’d like your child to navigate towards them. It’s one of the biggest ironies is that if you look at your kid and say, you need to listen to them, they’re gonna teach you so much. No, they’re not. You just totally shut that down because you put that.
person that influence on your kids radar and if they know why that’s happening so often they’ll fight against it. It’s like, that’s the direction you want me to go? Watch this. They turn and go completely in the other direction. So a lot of this is very subtle work, but the power of the mentor, the reason this topic is so important, is the understanding that it’s gonna happen one way or another.
Paul (12:07.25)
Okay.
Robert Trout (12:07.734)
your kids going to be influenced as they develop. And in our modern age, let’s step into this, we see a couple of different dynamics depending on where the kid is and what their boundaries and structures are, et cetera. But we see them influenced first of all by their friends group at school. Second of all, by their friend group online. And this is gaming and message system, social media, whatever that might be.
And then finally, a category I step into, which is a little, you know, it’s big brain here, is looking at gang mentality. I’m not saying they’re going to join a gang. What we’re talking about is the psychology of gangs, which is really looking at the fact that there are groups that form in every community, school, et cetera, that have their own mission because they’ve been pushed out. So it’s kind of an outlier system where it’s like, okay,
I need to protect myself maybe, or I need to feel a sense of power or control in my life or whatever I be. And those people gather together. And not all, I mean, it doesn’t have to be a gang that forms. It’s just a group that has a purpose. And those groups hunt. They really do. They recruit and look for others like them.
Paul (13:10.001)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (13:25.762)
that they can bring in together because there’s safety in numbers. It’s just kind of a natural human evolution, especially during that age of 13 to 18. That’s when we see so much of that recruiting behavior happening. And very often, you know, we see that process of the kid like, okay, who am I? And if someone will tell you who you are, that’s so much easier than doing the self-development work that we’re going to try to encourage.
through mentorship. So the power of the mentor is recognizing that all of this is gonna happen whether you like it or not. And the mentor is you inviting in the capacities into your whole family’s life to influence in what we would hope would be a positive direction of development for your kid. And it’s so individual when we get to that level where it’s like your kid is going to have
Paul (14:02.278)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (14:18.692)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (14:22.678)
What role, what purpose, what kind of boundaries and structure and process? And I mean, that’s where the mentor comes in is it’s a tool and it’s also a development practice for you as a parent to say, I’m not going to do this alone. Thoughts?
Paul (14:42.198)
I agree completely with that and I almost want to take it and flip it to the other side of the coin which is you know these these kids who isolate You know, they they remove themselves from influence They actually push away potential influence because maybe there’s anxiety there or maybe they just don’t have good social emotional awareness or what have you How do you get them to get engaged? Right because some of it is like pulling teeth, you know And when we’re talking about mentorship and we’re having this conversation
Robert Trout (14:46.862)
Good.
yeah, yep.
Paul (15:11.462)
You know, sometimes it is a little bit sort of like back door trying to introduce somebody to the environment. And you suggested earlier, Rob, like just invite somebody over, create some space for presence, offer an opportunity for your kid to just be in space. And maybe they don’t directly engage with this other person, but they can witness this other person. And it might take a little bit of time. It doesn’t mean it doesn’t work if you know your kid.
sits and stares at his food and eats through dinner and doesn’t make any eye contact and doesn’t say a single word. then, know, once the meal’s done, goes right back upstairs to their room. Okay. I mean, if that is actually the case, we’re recognizing that it’s gonna take a little bit to unwind that. And it’s gonna take some time and some intentionality to help your kid feel safe enough to engage, help your kid feel.
Like he or she or they have familiarity enough to engage, right? Because sometimes there’s that resistance to newness that comes with, especially the preteen, teen ages that, you know, trying to get them out of their shell can feel like pulling teeth, quite honestly. So we want to make sure that we’re holding kind of all these lenses for you guys as parents to understand again, the value of mentorship, the value of connection, the value of kind of helping somebody come.
Robert Trout (16:25.357)
Yep.
Paul (16:33.958)
their shell as well as reorient to what is healthy behavior. It’s all part of it.
Robert Trout (16:39.81)
Yeah, it is. And the mentor is an amazing tool. really, I guess to wrap up that kind of thought, the practice is simple. Recognize the direction your kid is growing or going, and start recognizing that you need to invite that world closer to you, and start looking for adults, teens, whoever is there. And sometimes it’s even about just doing research.
Well, what is that thing my kids into? Right. And can I be a part of it over here and then find people that way? Right. Because sometimes you have to be the one searching because again, you’re the one that knows that this person’s going to have a role. So you’re literally interviewing and finding the like, okay, you, can handle and I kind of like 90 % of everything you do. And I say that sometimes it’s like the biggest roadblock to mentorship is the parents saying,
Paul (17:07.698)
Mm-hmm.
Alright.
Robert Trout (17:38.229)
You’re about 75 % what I’m doing, but that 25 % is no. It’s like, you have to stay open to the idea that you’re not looking for perfect. You’re looking for influence. And so that person that’s like 75 % there to what you think is a good life or a good direction or decision or step, they’re great. Like 75 % is a win. Especially if we’re looking at like a 17 year old and it’s like, take that.
Paul (17:59.762)
Huge win.
Paul (18:06.61)
Mm-hmm, certainly.
Robert Trout (18:07.374)
So to me, there’s that like, okay, remain open to the influence you’re trying to build rather than this idea of like, I have to find the perfect match. All right, so using your words, let’s flip this conversation because like I said in the beginning of this, there are two directions of mentorship as a tool. We just talked about finding mentorship and influence in that process.
But the missed opportunity of this subject goes a second direction, which is your kid becoming a mentor. Okay. So, so many parents are looking, saying, they’re struggling with this or they’re not listening to me anymore or, you know, et cetera. And they miss this chance of saying like, well, if I gave them a job, if I gave them a role or responsibility,
that would reinforce the education of the decision making and the process and kind of their buy-in to something because who doesn’t like a sense of power or a sense of being looked up to or etc. Especially those younger ages, so 11, 12, 13, 14. I think those kids respond remarkably well to some adults saying to them, hey that kid over there, they’re struggling. Can you help them? They’re like,
yeah, you would trust me to help them? And you see the kind of spark or fire kind of come into them around like, I’m going to show them how to get better at life or, you know, doing these things or finding friends or being liked or whatever the issues are that you’re kind of targeting here. And by being the teacher, they reinforce the practices that they think work or don’t work.
But then they also see the hard side, the responsibility of their suggestion being awful and feeling the consequence of that and hopefully being encouraged to continue because they learn from the mentorship practice of what they’re doing. I’m going to pass that on, Paul. Like thoughts that come up when we start talking to families about the like, okay, your kid needs a role and that role can be a mentor.
Paul (20:26.052)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is often really effective for those kids who have blinders on to the reality that they impact the world. Right? You know, they’re the that sort of like egocentric, selfish, like closed off kid that, yeah, they just struggle to see how they impact their family or they impact their neighborhood or school culture. And it might feel a little bit
Robert Trout (20:36.205)
Yes.
Paul (20:55.076)
Like there’s a little twinge of like, God, do I want to, you know, and there’s still value, as you said, Robin and giving him an opportunity or her an opportunity to create that space for, the struggle and the strain of actually showing up for somebody else, you know, and experiencing the empathy and the compassion for showing up for somebody else and developing maybe some patience and offering of grace for somebody who is maybe not as developmentally advanced as they are. Right. So.
Robert Trout (21:14.317)
Yep.
Paul (21:24.912)
There’s so many lessons to it and there’s so many opportunities there. And if you’re feeling that little cringey side show up, I think that that might be a cue to say, all right, so what do I feel okay with creating an opportunity for? Maybe it’s, I mean, you suggested a cousin. Maybe there’s a younger cousin in the family. Maybe there’s, I mean, don’t have it be a younger sibling. It needs to be outside of the family. Have it be.
Robert Trout (21:51.074)
Yeah, typically, yes.
Paul (21:52.878)
Yeah, have it be somebody that maybe they don’t have as much history with for the sake of building new relationships, for the sake of showing up differently than maybe they do in other arenas of life, because this is an opportunity for their growth.
Robert Trout (22:07.34)
Yep, absolutely. Now, let’s talk a little bit about some of the dynamics we’ve seen unfold over the years as we’ve got families to this place. Sometimes the basic starting point is just going as you’re talking with other families at the school or church or social event or whatever it might be. Just start asking the questions of like, hey, what do you think my kid’s good at?
And the reason I say that is because very often it catches the other person off guard because, well, your kid’s great at this, this, and this. And then you can just quickly turn that around and say, great. Do you know any kids that might struggle with that that they could kind of help? Right? That’s it. That’s, mean, it’s the most basic playground conversation that sets up the opportunity without much thought in that. Because then again, you get to that place of
Paul (22:52.85)
I’m gonna feed.
Robert Trout (23:03.31)
Well, they told me about this family might be a good fit for that. Great. I’m going to invite that family over for dinner and I’m going let all the kids play and I’m going to watch that dynamic and start encouraging that very often just to play and interaction, whatever that might be. Because the irony is, is so much mentorship starts by just people like being in relationship with each other and building that like moment where that younger kid looks at the older kid and says,
you like to do that too? Can you show me? Can we do that together? Boom. They’re there. Like, okay. They’ve moved into that position in the hierarchy system where that younger kid is naturally asking for mentorship. It’s not this like overwhelming thing. Now,
I’m gonna use that kind of step into kind of the process of parents opening the conversation in both directions because then you get into like, okay, the kids are doing this and that’s great. My kid is mentoring this kid. And sometimes it’s even going to organizations like big brothers, big sisters, where it’s like my kids want to sign up for this. And that’s part of just something we’ve decided as a family. On that note, make sure you’re doing it too.
This is a wonderful opportunity within family systems that if you’re trying to get your kid to do something, you do it first, right? Like you’re showing them this is a value we have within our family system to give back or mentor or do all these things. And very often the kids will develop a sense of wanting that because they see their parents doing it. That’s a side note. But then we get into the like, okay, you’re going to build this practice. Let’s start building both directions.
Paul (24:43.356)
Okay.
Robert Trout (24:51.988)
Your kid has another kid that they’re doing something they enjoy together and they have that camaraderie together. And now let’s build it out where it’s like, and here’s this organization that does this hobby that, you know, that they’re both into, you know, building robots or mechanics or whatever. It doesn’t even matter. I don’t care what it is. And every parent needs to hear that. It doesn’t matter what it is. It really doesn’t. If they have this common interest, that’s
fuel to use to then drive towards this place where your kid is being mentored by this organization and the people working for it and then your kid is mentoring their mentee. We’re building a system here that starts to self-operate. So it’s not this great burden on you to manage what’s happening. It’s just building these pieces of your lifestyle as a family. Thoughts on that?
Paul (25:49.06)
Love it. Yeah. mean, seriously, it makes good sense in that we need to be able to take a step back as caregivers. We need to feel like we can really hand over a process. And we talked about it briefly earlier. It’s like, yeah, to take a step back is actually healthy, especially for where they’re at in the preteen, teen, and adult stages of life. You know, giving them the life experience to be successful and also to feel the difficult moments because that’s where the growth happens.
Robert Trout (25:50.746)
Yeah.
Paul (26:18.64)
So putting them in a setting where they’re going to be challenged, that’s important. Putting them in a setting where they have responsibility equally is important. So really giving them the opportunity to show up. And again, if you feel cringy about it or you feel like you have doubt, watch out for being overly assumptive about what your child’s capable of or not. Right?
Robert Trout (26:41.538)
Yes. Yep. And that would be my final note. I guess I’ll jump in here. My final note to this conversation is looking at the system itself with responsibility and role, et cetera. There are two parts to this mentorship conversation that come in that families completely disregard. And it amazes me. I mean, I’m surprised I’ve done this so long, but it’s still like, what do mean you haven’t considered this for your kid?
And very often it is a thought where the parents think they don’t have the capacity or that, you know, they shouldn’t, you know, do these things because they’re too young. And these two things have solved so many, I’m going to say situations, problems, and kind of dynamics for families that I’m amazed that families just don’t have it right in the forefront. And those two things are a job or an internship. It’s, it’s mind blowing.
how many kids respond to the responsibility, the camaraderie, the work that they’re doing to make their own money and a sense of individuation. Because again, in that teenage life, it’s like, I want space from you. And suddenly you encourage them to take space and make their own money and move in the direction of independence. Very often that solves so many dynamics of the conversation or the internal fight.
within the family system because you’re encouraging them to do the thing they feel like they’re supposed to do. And I say this to so many families where it’s like, your kid can work. And some families say, well, they don’t need to work. They’re young and we have money. And I’m like, well, great. I’m glad you have money. And they need to make their own. They need that same sense of accomplishment. And I sometimes take a parent through that regression.
Like, how did you feel when you started being able to like be successful? And then, well, I felt amazing. I was independent and I built this empire. And it’s like, great. Your kid needs that too. Don’t take that from them just because you work so hard that they don’t have to. You know, sometimes that’s the conversation, but you know, even if it’s not the case, it’s like, okay, they need to still learn if you’re doing your work and you’re struggling or feel that you’re struggling.
Robert Trout (28:56.878)
It’s the same thing where it’s like, well, they need to figure out how to do their work and figure out what that’s going to look like. So getting a job and giving them that independence and space and allowing them to have their own money and start paying for their own life and all that amazing step. And usually at work, they find a mentor. It just kind of naturally happens because they’re spending so many hours a day or a week or whatever it might be with those people that people start to just come into.
Paul (29:16.626)
Right.
Robert Trout (29:25.42)
that mindset of like, I’m going to teach you how to do this well. It’s like, that’s amazing. That’s a great. The last, the second of that is the internship. And so many parents miss that opportunity because they’re just not thinking like my kid needs an internship. And it doesn’t matter what it’s towards. I’ve had kids that have done internships at exotic fit pet stores. I’ve had kids do internships at a blacksmithing school. I’ve had them do internships.
at their parents’ work, right? Like, your parents’ boss mentors you to do this project for like a couple of weeks to learn what they do at your agency. Like, so many opportunities can be built just by asking, like, hey, would you take my kid for, you know, weeks or months or whatever the dynamic is and teach them what you do? And, you know, you’re working for free, but you’re getting experience and mentorship.
That’s a common, like, those two things go together.
Paul (30:28.871)
Yeah, and I guess the kind of fine point on that is something that we started out this conversation with is make sure it’s something that they’re interested in, right? Because they need to have buy-in, they need to understand their own personal value in getting up and going to a place where they’re not gonna get paid. And these kids, you know, as they become preteens, they will ask, well, how much am I gonna get paid? Right? And so you’re gonna have to be able to, or…
Robert Trout (30:36.482)
Yes.
Paul (30:56.238)
It’s suggested and strongly suggested to create the space for them to feel excited about it. Them to feel bought in, them to feel eager to get up and go. And so then again, comes back to the beginning. Be curious, be curious. Who’s your kid? What are they moving towards?
Robert Trout (31:13.069)
Yes.
Yep. And in that money conversation, don’t miss the opportunity for you to pay them to do it. It’s like you go do this internship and when you complete it, that’s usually where I get to. When you finish the internship, I’ll give you that, you know, $100, $200, whatever number, it doesn’t matter. I’ll give you that towards the computer that you need or want for school, right? Like work towards their goals.
through life experience and in that dynamic they’re going to find mentorship, at least if the system is set up well and that’s what we’re hoping for here.
All right, so missed opportunities. And this conversation really does kind of go over into the conversation we’ve had before about like building your team. The mentor or the mentee, in either direction that you go as parents, are important and really a valuable tool to you as a parent to consider bringing into the dynamic. So I hope this conversation has been helpful.
and come find us at parentrainers.com, ask your questions and get support from other families. And we look forward to seeing you next time.
