Robert Trout (00:01.689)
Hello and welcome to the Parent Problems Today podcast. Today you’re joined by myself, Robert Trout, and Mary Zahnbrecher from the Parent Trainers team. And we are going for round two of our new format that was suggested where what we’re gonna do is kind of a question and answer discussion and talk from real families in real situations that we’ve interacted with, either through social media or our community or site.
So today we’re gonna go through several different scenarios and Mary, you and I get to kind of dissect it and look at kind of the first thoughts and process that happens for a family that’s going through something that’s very, very real for them. So Mary, are you ready?
Mary (00:45.484)
I’m ready, always ready for these sorts of scenarios.
Robert Trout (00:49.089)
Alright. So, again to the listener, we don’t have a lot of detail because these are suggestions or stories that were written in. So they’re very basic just to get a broad view of what’s going on. Scenario number one today. Alright. I have an 11 year old daughter and she and I are very close and this is coming from a mother. We are working through
a lot of different things as she gets older, but recently she has started spending more and more time in her room by herself. This sparked my curiosity, so I checked her phone and discovered that she has a TikTok account. We’ve previously discussed that I don’t agree with kids having TikTok, so she knew that if she had asked, I would have said no.
which makes this feel like a major betrayal of trust. I’m disappointed but unsure how to address it because ironically I would have to admit that I snooped through her phone. I want her to trust me as she grows up. I need advice from others who’ve dealt with this. How do I move forward knowing that she broke my trust and I broke hers?
Mary (02:14.154)
Yes.
Robert Trout (02:16.513)
I mean, come on. This is classic parenting. my god. I’m gonna hand it to you. So, take it run with this one. This is good.
Mary (02:18.368)
I was going to say it’s so typical. Yeah. I was going to say if I had a penny for every time a parent was like, well, I know this thing, but I’m not supposed to know this thing. Right. And where my mind typically jumps to just straight off the bat is if you are a safe place for your child to come and confide in, if you are a safe person for them to
Robert Trout (02:34.285)
Yes.
Mary (02:48.142)
share what’s actually going on for them, then having a discussion around this can take a number of different routes, right? So just staying curious about, know, what is it about social media that’s so important to you? What are some of the things that, you know, I might not be thinking about as a 30, 40, 50 year old, 60 year old, right? That maybe
I’m missing about what’s so important or relevant for my child. And just having that conversation and starting that conversation as a broader topic around social media and those things, right? Yeah, along with, you know, this just kind of being that kind of cautionary tale, right? For other parents of like, let your child know that every now and then you will be checking their phone if that’s something that you as a parent feel like.
Robert Trout (03:37.007)
you
Mary (03:44.744)
needs to happen. And certainly with an 11 year old, I would say it’s trending more towards that with parents I’m seeing and more towards parents maybe not even giving their 11 year old a phone yet. But in that same vein, you’re you’re asking someone without a prefrontal cortex, who is very, very driven by impulse and immediate gratification to not do something that is very relevant in their world.
Robert Trout (03:52.996)
Yeah.
Mary (04:14.702)
whether we want it to be or not, right? And so really understanding that this is less about policing and more about having the conversations with them that are important before something like this would happen. And as these things do come up, being able to check in with yourself and say, how am I gonna make this a conversation where my child feels loved and understood, even if I don’t change the boundary?
even if I stick with that boundary.
Robert Trout (04:47.011)
Yep, absolutely. I mean, everything you just said is spot on. I think this brings up a lot for me in conversations where I have families I’ve worked with for years that bring up these things called the Rob Trout rules. And I’ve had one for a very long time that I’m going to share with every listener right now. This is something you can take from me and hold on to this until you pay for your own phone and phone bill.
Mary (05:01.23)
you
Robert Trout (05:16.527)
That phone belongs to me. End of story. Until you move towards adult responsibility, which we’re looking for, right? 17, 18, 19, 20 year olds. Like that’s a whole other conversation, but there’s a reality to this effect of just because it’s a tool that has been given to you doesn’t mean you own it. So there’s an element to this that I would say a hundred percent, this is my rule, take it or leave it.
Mary (05:18.83)
Move.
Right?
Robert Trout (05:46.447)
All right, 100 % across the board, this is a conversation when the phone is first given as a tool to the child is this is a tool that I’m lending to you. It doesn’t belong to you. This is not yours. This is mine that I would like you to have for these reasons. But for that reason, I will always have access to this phone, to its content, to what’s happening. And you need to know that.
so that you can make smart informed decisions about what you choose to do with this tool. So it’s not a, know, I’m policing you. It’s a, no, this is a wonderful tool and I’d like you to use it and learn to use it responsibly and I’m going to check it every now and then. So it alleviates this big part of this conversation that we’re getting into right now with this mom is like,
Mary (06:21.869)
Right.
Robert Trout (06:43.907)
She snoped. So if she had set up the parameters of this beforehand when the phone was first given, you alleviate so much of the conflict because now it’s a, hey, I checked on my phone and I see that you’ve brought in this account. Let’s have a conversation about that. Let’s move into curiosity about what it’s for. Are you doing it for the social connection? Are you doing it because all of your friends are? Like you broke a rule. So there’s going to be a consequence.
Mary (06:56.269)
Right.
Robert Trout (07:12.783)
And it’s also more about the conversation, about responsibility and use and all that type of work. So for me, there’s definitely a lot in this, but it’s very simple for me and others that kind of adopt this rule of I’m going to treat it for what it is and not leave a lot of room for interpretation, especially at 11, 12, 13.
Mary (07:32.195)
Right.
Robert Trout (07:39.511)
Starting puberty things are changing neurological effects are starting to happen Like that’s the time that I know a lot of parents that have to step in and say I need to back this off Right. This phone is there’s addictive patterns and behavioral patterns and things that happen. So those years are so impactful for the family system around technology and its use
Mary (08:04.27)
Yeah. What comes up for me as you’re saying that is also when you’re having these conversations, be careful not to lecture about, you know, the dangers of social media or the dangers of phone addiction. Keep it short and sweet. You don’t have to reason with your child about why you as the parent believe something unless they’re asking for the research, which I don’t know an 11 year old who wants it. But also, yeah, just thinking about
Robert Trout (08:13.197)
Yes.
Robert Trout (08:28.377)
Nope.
Mary (08:32.756)
staying curious about what is so important because a lot of times we assume why kids want something. And we’re actually cutting off that ability for ourselves to like collect data on what’s important to my kid, right? And then to also say, well, you know, it sounds like these are the things you really enjoy about TikTok or social media. And here’s some other ways that I would support you in doing these things or connecting, right?
So we’re bridging that gap between what they feel like they are missing and how we as parents can be a little more creative, right? And looking at meeting those needs in a different way, which we all know as older people, right? We used to do in person. Yeah.
Robert Trout (09:19.619)
Yep. Yeah. And I guess my final thoughts to this one, because we do want to step into solution-oriented conversation for it, is that for me, this is pretty simple. My advice that, I mean, there’s lots of different ways to do it. But very often where the family moves into is a place of saying, OK, it’s a one-off. So you need to sit with your daughter and say, OK, we both did something that I don’t want to have to repeat in the future.
So I know that you did this because I did this. And I’m just being honest about that. And now we’re going to start over and move forward. Especially since this sounds like a first offense, like this isn’t like a fighting off of anything. Like it doesn’t need to be this major blowout thing. This is relational. Hey, I did this because I was concerned. In the future, I’d like to do that a little more openly. So we’re going to move towards this.
Mary (10:05.708)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (10:13.763)
And I’d like to find out from you why you did this. What was the important aspect of this so that we can open that conversation?
Mary (10:20.684)
Yeah. And there’s just another aspect to that Rob of just humanizing yourself and letting your child know that they aren’t bad because they did this, right? That like, Hey, I did the same thing in a way as well, right? Where we’re kind of going behind each other’s backs. And sometimes we do that out of love and, and, you know, caution. And as a parent, that’s, you know, I feel like that’s my role at time, but maybe it’s something we can both work on together.
Just how humanized it is for an 11 year old to hear that their parents also struggle with some of the same things they do, because sometimes they don’t see that at all from us.
Robert Trout (10:50.222)
Yep.
Robert Trout (10:58.755)
Yep, absolutely. All right, great. Let’s move into scenario number two. OK, so this one is more complicated. So just being honest, as we kind of step into it, this one is a lot to open. But let’s kind of read through this scenario here. All right, my boyfriend, who is late 40s, has two teenage daughters.
Mary (11:04.846)
All right.
Robert Trout (11:25.743)
One just turned 18 and the other is still 17. And they are overly disrespectful to the point that they drove me to move out after living with them for over two years. His oldest daughter has called me names and has stepped in to be overly disrespectful and insists that they will continue to be.
and drives the younger daughter to join her on her side. They treat all of us, including my four-year-old daughter, extremely, I think they’re supposed to be extremely rudely. And my boyfriend doesn’t seem to be able to step in in this scenario. I’m realizing that he’s most likely conflict avoidant. Instead,
He seems to give them whatever they want, including a thousand dollar bills at Starbucks in a month, gas cards to go wherever they want and do whatever they want without any accountability. So despite repeated talks and requests for them to be more respectful, they continue to just ignore and try to push us away from each other.
I’ve told him that I need a break, but what I’m here for is advice on the idea of co-parenting, being a stepmom if we ever did become married, and how people would handle this in a blended family.
Mary (13:07.982)
Yeah, that’s a tough one. There’s so much complexity to entering into someone else’s life in that way. And certainly a lot going on emotionally for everyone. I would say, yeah, I think it’s fantastic that she’s thinking ahead to co-parenting and what that looks like, especially since she has a daughter. It sounds like who is four. And what
Robert Trout (13:34.233)
Yes.
Mary (13:36.616)
that would look like with someone who she is starting to realize might be conflict-abundant and where her boundaries lie in terms of how she parents and how she wants to be supported from a co-parent, right? And this can take a ton of different forms as well. I just want to mention, like, there’s tons of people out there who are co-parenting with their mom or their dad or, you know, lots of other people where this sort of scenario comes up.
And so being able to have a discussion around where the boundary lies verbally, where the boundary lies in having that role model to her younger daughter, I think is where I would start in talking about your responsibility to yourself and to your daughter, right? If you believe that.
that is your role as a parent to not have that role model to your daughter. So I think she’s already done a great job in removing herself and taking a break from that to consider this from a less emotionally heightened place or dysregulated place that she can have actually that physical space.
Robert Trout (14:46.777)
Yeah.
Absolutely. And I mean, I said it at the beginning, this one is full, full of things to dissect and kind of go into. I kind of want to just step into two parts that really stand out to me, which is, first of all, her realizing that her now partner is conflict avoidant and that that’s driven seemingly from a relational dynamic between his daughters and maybe the divorce or whatever the situation was before with the other parent.
Mary (14:54.509)
Robert Trout (15:18.315)
and now her stepping in. So this plays very well into hierarchy systems, where as a step-parent stepping into that scenario, if that’s where she would head in this scenario, she would need to be cognizant of the impact of being that person stepping in and taking the space, time, resources away from them, from their dad. So the disrespect, especially at those ages, and it’s probably been going on for a while, because I think she said she’s been with them for
Mary (15:23.158)
Yes.
Robert Trout (15:47.919)
four years, so the older daughter was 14 when they met, there’s that like drive in the family system for control and different elements that come up during puberty around, hold on, who do I have to listen to and why do I have to listen to them? So there’s something to dissect here on two fronts. One is the conflict avoidance and the hierarchy systems within the family itself that could be worked on.
where her and her partner can do the therapy or parent coaching with us or someone else, where it’s like, okay, let’s start to break this down into a plan of setting up structure and boundaries so that we’re teaching them as they become young adults what is acceptable and not acceptable. And the dad being in that scenario, if he is conflict avoidant, to develop new patterns of behavior so that he can address it in a different way.
Especially if they’re about to be young adults, like he can’t keep treating them as if they’re the kids from years before. There’s going to have to be that separation and space in that process. And then the second element to that is definitely in the like, okay, as a step-parent, there’s that acknowledgement that you are the impact in that scenario. And that’s okay. It’s a choice to be made. And when you make that choice,
There’s that acceptance of saying, okay, there’s going to be a level of impact and I have to work with my partner to figure out what my role is and make sure that’s acceptable to me and to the whole family system. So there’s a lot to dissect there, but the work I think that I’d say to this person is to work with the partner while you’re on this break to see if there’s changes that everyone can agree to or the two of them can agree to.
because then it’s the united front stepping in to work with the now almost two young adults in that scenario. Thoughts on that?
Mary (17:44.226)
Yeah, mean, that’s kind of the approach that I think I would take is just this, if we break it down into looking at each relationship, right? We’re kind of looking at this huge kind of line drawing of how everyone is related to everyone else and all of those independent relationships and then interdependent relationships, right? And coming to some agreement on just very basic
things in a household, right? Which a lot of times we’re talking to parents about that kind of stuff. What does it mean to have a respectful conversation? Let’s get really nitty gritty about that, right? What does it mean to, yeah, to take time for each other? What does it mean to be a family? What does it mean to be a young adult in the world? And certainly his role as parent as well, right?
What are the things that he believes his role as a parent are? Because if those aren’t the same as hers, it makes sense why the behaviors are different and the boundaries are different. Yeah.
Robert Trout (18:52.879)
Yep, absolutely. All right. Some of these seem simple and straightforward. Others, there’s so much more data, right, that needs to like, OK, this person really needs help. Like they need coaching, therapy, or support in some kind of manner to dissect the situation they’re in. And that’s just the reality sometimes is that the level of complexity is really playing into not only your role, in this case, this almost step mom maybe.
Mary (19:17.742)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (19:21.007)
but also understanding the mental health needs and process and kind of family dynamics from whatever the scenario was before she came into the picture. so much work to be done is just the dedication to do it.
Mary (19:30.19)
Right. Right.
Mary (19:36.696)
Totally. I mean, as I was even speaking, I was thinking, I wonder if the previous wife had passed away and there were some of that residual being projected. There’s so many questions that we ask one-on-one whenever we work with these types of families, but kind of bigger picture. Yeah, it’s hard to answer these without all of the context, but bigger picture, I think you’re spot on with the hierarchies and yeah, just that dynamic can be so challenging.
Robert Trout (20:06.607)
Alright, let’s move into scenario number three for today. This is, it seems simple, but I’m really curious because I actually responded with these parents and kind of tried to step in a little bit. So I’m curious what your reaction will be to this. Alright. My child turned 13 today and at yesterday’s party, my parents, their grandparents, gifted them a tablet without discussing it with me first.
Mary (20:21.902)
Bye bye.
Robert Trout (20:37.175)
I’m livid. We have deliberately kept our child offline, providing only a flip phone and limited access to anything on the internet without supervision. Now they own, right? We’re stepping in the rubbed out role here. They own their own device. And that seems to bypass my authority and the rules and restrictions that we’ve had.
Mary (20:57.526)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (21:06.585)
So now I’m the bad guy. Then the question is, am I being unreasonable to expect that my parents should have talked to me before giving this gift? That’s number one. And then number two is, how do I effectively backtrack this situation without setting off everything that we’ve established in our rules beforehand?
Mary (21:34.882)
Yeah, I will start by saying you are absolutely not wrong in feeling like that should have been cleared with you. I would go so far as to ask what is the dynamic there that they might not have known that or they knew it and they just kind of felt like they were gonna be the cool grandparents or whatever that mind frame is, right?
And I think, you know, this is a point of contention for so many parents of like, how do I not be the bad guy? How do I walk on eggshells around my kid is essentially what they’re saying, right? You’re not here to not be the bad guy. It’s like sometimes in your role as parent, you are going to have to set a really hard boundary or do something that your kid is going to say.
Robert Trout (22:12.771)
Mm-hmm
Mary (22:31.414)
I hate you or I believe in hate you and slam their door and give you the silent treatment for as you know, however long that they can do it. But that this is a very teachable moment on a lot of fronts. If you can sit with your parents and say, I want to be clear about there are some things in our household that we have chosen not to do. And here is our intention with that.
And so we would like for you to check in now with us when you do have a purchase like that, that you’re going to make so that we can okay it because in our household, we have been very intentional. And I heard that how intentional they’ve been, right? To keep their kids offline. And then on the other hand, this dynamic between child and mother, does mother have a co-parent? Why is mother the bad guy and not?
mom and dad or mom and mom or whatever it is, right? The bad guy. Why is it not the co-parents saying we, right? And this is a huge, huge factor that I speak with most of my parents about because yeah, in the day to day, a lot of times there are certain dynamics in the family where one parent does tend to set more rules or enforce more boundaries or set more limits, right?
And the dynamic that we want to make is that we as co-parents have set this very intention for our family for a reason. And so this is a we and here’s how we are planning to deliver this news. Here’s how we are planning to deal with this. Yeah. And I would say either just walking it back and returning the item and saying,
Robert Trout (24:12.142)
Yep.
Mary (24:21.378)
They can spend that amount of money on some outdoor equipment or whatever, you know, the family value is there. Or saying, you can use it, but it’s going to be an offline mode all the time and only in front of us.
Robert Trout (24:25.711)
Thank
Robert Trout (24:36.803)
Yep. Yeah. And I’m glad you talked about those because really when we look at solution oriented stuff, think, okay, first of all, most people who are listening to this just went, my God, why didn’t they ask? Like it’s, it’s, it is surprising, right? So if we were working with this family, they’re definitely a little bit of juicy, like what’s the dynamic there that led to this. And to be honest, sometimes it’s just plain ignorance of like devices and the effects and all that kind of stuff.
It’s just like, I got this really cool thing for you. So it may not be malicious at all. And I want to be clear about that to all the listeners. Like, we don’t know. It’s just kind of open up. But then we get into the solution oriented conversation. And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve helped families solve this by mentioning, you realize that you can take that, return it or sell it, and just give them the money and say, you know what you can do with this. And I’m really sorry that that’s not OK.
Mary (25:12.224)
yeah. Yeah.
Robert Trout (25:35.215)
within our family system in the future will work towards that. But for now, here’s the money, right? It’s just the exchange. The thing I try to make sure everyone understands is what you don’t do is say you don’t get anything, right? Like the kids attachment, even at 13 is usually to the value of this really cool thing. So if they can take that and get, I don’t know, $500 for it and go buy that mountain bike they’ve really wanted,
Mary (25:49.1)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (26:05.517)
They’re equally excited, right? So always move towards exchange versus demand, meaning like, I’m going to take control and take this from you and you get nothing. Right? So, so important.
Mary (26:17.29)
Right. The language thing is really important too, right? Yeah. So whenever I talk to parents who do typically walk on eggshells, we kind of review the plays, so to speak, in the past conversations like this, in terms of what has been said and what has been responded, right? And look at how can we actually language this in a way that helps the child stay more regulated during the conversation, right?
or have their moment where they’re really upset and say, hey, you can take the time you need and I’m here when you’re ready to talk about it. And understand it’s normal for a kid to be upset that they don’t have some of these things. It’s normal for a 10 year old to want the cool thing that mom and dad have. We all did it in our own ways as children. We just didn’t have this sort of device when we were growing up, some of us. So yeah, really looking at
Robert Trout (27:11.395)
Yes.
Mary (27:15.384)
How am I helping my child understand while this is not something we’re going to be using in the next however many years, we certainly wanna give you the freedom. You remember that thing you were talking about getting that cost about that much? This could be your chance, right? And playing on that idea of like your kid does have interests outside of that screen. Like use that, yeah.
Robert Trout (27:39.405)
Yes. Yep, absolutely. So. Yeah, I mean, it kind of covers the gambit of like, OK, here’s where we’re at. I guess my final thought on it is just this parent seems to know like I’m going to be the bad guy. And you said at the beginning, like there’s an element to this where we can’t control everything that comes in to our child’s lives. So this scenario just kind of plays into that reality check where now it’s.
There’s something new to open curiosity and conversation. There’s something new to look at solutions that your child can create with you, especially at 13. This is like the mentorship age, right? And it’s like, okay, let’s, let’s step into a conversation about how to solve this in a way that works for you. And for me, there’s so much that can be done with this scenario, but you couldn’t have stopped it from happening in this capacity or maybe another.
it was eventually coming. It just happened to be your parents. They did it for you. And maybe that’s a little karma. I mean, we don’t even know, right? There’s something there.
Mary (28:40.802)
Right.
Mary (28:46.158)
Yeah, it’s something to think about in terms of just like making this a rich conversation and empowering conversation for your child. And a lot of times what I find is parents will block themselves off from the ability to have that because they are so terrified to be the bad guy or whatever story they’re playing in their head, rather than treating their 13 year old like you said, like
as an equal kind of opportunity problem solver with you of like, huh, what could we do in a way that still embodies our family values and where you still feel like you got a really cool gift for your 13th birthday. Yeah.
Robert Trout (29:28.089)
Yep, absolutely. All right, well, I think that’s all for today as we kind of wrap up this session of question and answer. How are we looking at this? The truth is that I know for 100 % fact that there are tons of families out there going, my God, they listened to my conversation or they copied my post or whatever. The truth is that this is universal. So this is kind of a blend of stories that are real, that families are struggling with.
looking at saying, my God, how do we handle this? So thank you for listening today. And I hope some of these scenarios brought up some good thoughts or conversation or ideas that might be helpful to you as a family. And we look forward to having you come and join us for the next, I guess, podcast episode. I want to put it out there for all listeners that we have parenttrainers.com.
that’s live and active for a community setting, for families to come in and share these posts and ideas and get support in real time to go through group coaching and develop plans and intervention strategies. So please take a moment and come check us out. We’d appreciate it.
