Robert Trout (00:01.261)
Hello and welcome to today’s podcast with parenting problems today and myself my name is Robert Trout. I’m your host along with Paul Arredondo both from the Parent Trainers team. We are coming today with a whole new format option that we’re going to try out for you where we have real scenarios from real families from a lot of different scenarios and situations that they’re in around
the country and the idea of this is to go over some of the questions and situations on the podcast without revealing any private information where we’re going to kind of present this and then all kind of step into what what comes up for us as the professionals so that if we were doing a group coaching session where would this head towards like what what kind of ideas would we spend the families towards or considerations.
or things that might come up just from that information. So with that, we’re going to try this new format out for you today, where I’ve got several different families that wrote in to get support from other parents and professionals to try to enlighten them towards having options for what they’re going through. So Paul, are you ready for scenario number one?
Paul (01:22.288)
Sure, let’s do it.
Robert Trout (01:23.755)
All right, here we go. My nine-year-old daughter needs nightly talks before bed. Often, this is about friend drama or worries or general anxiety or fears. However, my issue is that they never resolve in the conversation that we’re having. She rejects advice or validation and says I don’t understand her at all.
Yet she can’t explain how I don’t understand her. She says she often feels sad, especially when we’re not doing things. So boredom is definitely a consideration that brings a lot of stuff up for her. I don’t understand why this always has to happen at night. It can never be discussed during the day. Then when I started to mention things such as her seeing a therapist, she says that she felt
worse now because she’s the kind of person who apparently needs help. spend hours trying to support her, but nothing seems to help and I feel like I’m failing. What I want to know is, is this normal and how can I help her?
Paul (02:27.504)
Hmm.
Paul (02:41.834)
Yeah, let’s start with normalizing this, you know, and a lot of folks who have anxiety no matter what age and as a nine year old, it sounds like there’s a lot going on for this little girl.
Robert Trout (02:45.859)
Yep.
Paul (02:54.576)
It’s so interesting how the brain can be more active as the static of the world dies away. Meaning like the TVs go off, the conversations stop, the stimulation is just reduced because you’re transitioning to bed. And then all of a sudden the gears start to turn in a reflective process. that’s with folks who are typically challenged with anxiety, that’s when things like ruminations start to come forward. That’s when we…
We sort of replay the things, we kind of talk to ourselves and sometimes those are really sad and, you know, challenging stories that we’re revisiting. And also maybe our own internal dialogue is one of self-doubt or criticism or anger or frustration, or, you know, especially if it was being bullied, there’s maybe some sadness and grief and confusion. And so there’s a lot of emotions that come up, right? And so to hear…
that your daughter is saying, you don’t understand me. I mean, that statement often means, wow, there’s a lot going on here that she’s not even capable of vocalizing as a nine-year-old. Yeah.
Robert Trout (04:00.451)
Yeah, let’s actually hone in on what you just said. She’s not capable of vocalizing this. So the very first thought that came to me when I saw this mom put this out there was this, this nine-year-old neurologically does not have therapeutic language, which also to me very often plays into the first part of this story.
Paul (04:24.517)
Right.
Robert Trout (04:29.623)
where the mom’s like, she says I don’t understand her even when I’m using reflective language. It’s like, okay, what that tells me as the outside observer then is that your daughter’s telling you everything is coming. And then you’re handing it back to her. And when she hears it coming back to her, it doesn’t make sense because she’s not connecting the actual story to the feeling. So she’s possibly not.
Paul (04:35.235)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (04:56.048)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (04:58.359)
Feeling that connection but it has nothing to do with you or the reflective language even is just the neurological state she’s in so absolutely normal at this age for them to know something’s happening and they wanna like bring it forth and get help and they don’t wanna feel this way but they don’t know the word such as sadness.
Paul (05:23.12)
Right
Robert Trout (05:24.567)
connected to the story that was reflected back to them that you feel sad. There’s a disconnect there that is absolutely normal in that developmental age. But it’s coming, right? Like nine to 12, you start to see little connection points happening. So I’m seeing the beginning of a story here and a reassurance to this parent and every parent that’s listening to this that these kind of situations are absolutely normal.
And very frustrating because if you’re running the circle, which is sounds like this mom’s biggest issue is the circle, the loop that never ends. It’s like, feel this way. I feel this way. I’m going through this. I’m going through this. And it just looping and looping and looping every night. So let’s step into that for a minute, Paul. What comes up for you about the looping?
Paul (05:57.37)
Yeah.
Paul (06:12.176)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (06:17.154)
Yeah, well, actually, before we even get into the looping, well, this does address the looping. know, one of the things you said earlier is there’s the story and then there’s the emotion. And oftentimes the nine-year-olds don’t have the vernacular to express the emotional depth and nuance of their experience. And so as a parent,
Robert Trout (06:26.968)
Yes.
Paul (06:35.552)
One of the things that you can do, and I hear that, you know, I’ve been doing reflective listening and that, and that’s the interesting thing to maybe hone in on and refine for yourself in your own process of just being present and attuning to your child is be cognizant of the story, which we’ll, we’ll use this word content. Content is the story process is the emotion underneath the story. So.
Content versus process if you’re giving nothing but content in reflection to her experience and even if she is saying I’m frustrated or I’m sad Those are very kind of surface level emotions, you know, and so it might be
good for you as a parent to maybe do a little learning for yourself. There’s some resources online and one of my favorite ones is if you just Google wheel of emotions, it’ll be this image that actually gives you a heck of a lot more language of the nuance of emotional vernacular, emotional intelligence.
check out that page because you might be able to in that moment, rather than reflect back the content, reflect back, wow, you’re feeling really isolated. You’re feeling rejected. You’re feeling like you want to withdraw from this experience. And so there’s so much language that can actually get to that sense of attunement that your daughter feels like is missing in the conversation. So by you increasing your awareness of different language, what you’re actually doing is teaching her language.
language to express herself at the same time. So this is helping her develop her emotional intelligence. So a simple tool, go Google Wheel of Emotions, it out, study it for yourself, know your own. That’s like a good first step. then, and then, you know, use that language and say, and you might even get it wrong. And so here’s the, the kind of richness of these conversations that I think some parents feel like, my God, I’m misstepping or I’m doing it wrong. It’s actually, it’s okay if you’re wrong. If you say, wow.
Robert Trout (08:20.065)
Yep.
Paul (08:36.228)
You sound really irritated. And they go, no, I’m not irritated. I’m just frustrated. you’re frustrated. That’s actually a process. That’s actually them expressing themselves. That’s actually productive. So watch out for judging yourself when actually what you’re doing is you’re helping them verbally process. So it is about them developing language. And again, simple tool.
Robert Trout (08:45.645)
Yes.
Paul (08:59.332)
Check it out, it’s worth investing in for yourself and your own internal landscape and that knowledge and that wisdom of how that can serve you to then ultimately pass that on to your child.
Robert Trout (09:09.239)
Yep. There’s also something for parents to consider.
Neurological development happens different for every single kid. It just does. So anyone listening to this, I don’t care if you might have a 16 year old that sounds like this nine year old and that’s okay. It just means that there’s some maybe neurological delay or something happening there for their processing. Every kid is different. And for me, one of the things that comes up when I hear this story is, hey, mom, if you’re looping and the looping is the problem,
Paul (09:20.368)
You
Robert Trout (09:45.623)
Break the loop, not the kid. So for example, I would step into this and say, OK, if you know this happens at night, change the bedtime routine. For example, go to the kitchen, not the bed. Go to the kitchen and share a hot cup of tea with each other and set a timer for 20 minutes that we get to talk about our day and anything that’s coming up for us. So now the trigger is I’m in bed and I’m unwinding.
Paul (09:57.636)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (10:14.387)
It’s we’re going to build in this time that’s connection time because that also came up for me in this is that it so many kids will create these scenarios because they want to spend time with you and this is the only way they figured out to gain your full undivided detention is that the workday is over and all the other kids, you know are already in bed and homework’s done and we had dinner like
life is done, so now is the only moment I can grab your full attention. That might be playing a role in this scenario. It might not, but as I hold that, there’s a like, okay, break the loop pattern is gonna be the real step here for changing your frustration about how this is going. Because if you just keep putting this kid to bed, expecting it to be different,
Paul (10:45.561)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (11:08.097)
That’s on you, not on them. They’re using the time that’s been allocated to them to meet a need, some emotional need or some connection need or something that’s going on there. So if you recognize that the need needs to be met, try it differently. Switch it where now we’re in the kitchen for 20 minutes before we go to bed, and this is connection time just between the two of us to have tea.
and talk and talk about our day and see what’s going on. But then after that 20 minutes, we go to bed, we read, we go to sleep. Build a routine that’s different than what you’ve been doing. Sounds very simplistic, but it’s extremely effective. And stepping into this age group, it’s still effective. It’s great for little kids, but nine, 10, 11, 12, they’re still gonna follow your lead as you’re going through it.
Paul (11:53.21)
Yeah.
Paul (11:58.448)
Yeah, and the last thing I’ll say to put a fine point on what you were just offering, Rob, is creating the boundary to understand that sleeping time is actually a time when we start to decompress, not when we ramp up. Right? And so being clear about that, and it doesn’t have to be heavy handed. It’s just like, hey, know, sleep is so important that it actually
actually having a healthy routine of us settling down and taking deep breaths together or, you know, wiggling our body until we release the tension or doing the things that, you know, a nine-year-old would be into. Sometimes it, some, some of these kids, it’s so pent up in their body that they need to actually wiggle or dance or, you know, especially with the little ones, sometimes having a little like wrestling match with dad is actually a good thing before they go to bed, just to kind of like settle the nervous system.
Robert Trout (12:47.394)
Yep.
Paul (12:49.762)
So figure out who your kid is in that way. Does your kid need movement? Does your kid need focused attention? Because as you said, Rob, everybody’s neurologically different. Everybody responds differently. So yeah, be curious. Be curious. Try some things out. Consider it an opportunity to learn more about your process with your kid, who your kid is, how you can meet your kid in a healthy way. yeah.
It’s going to be a process, especially as 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15. You’re going to continue to learn about who your child is, as you know.
Robert Trout (13:22.465)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (13:27.969)
Yep, absolutely. All right, well, let’s kind of switch gears off of that story and go into another story to a family that’s out there. And our hope in this for anybody that’s listening is that as you hear one family story, you start to realize that you’re not alone. There’s so many scenarios that like this first story, this is hundreds of families that are going through similar things that they’re trying to understand bedtime routine or anxiety or something. There’s always some connection point. And that’s what we find in
kind of the parent support groups and things that we do and group coaching and all that kind of work, is the families hearing this and going, I can use that for me. I just need to adapt it a little bit. So if you’re listening to this, that’s the goal of this kind of model of looking at real stories and scenarios and kind of moving through it. All right, Paul, let’s move into scenario number two. We’re going to grow up several years here for this one. All right.
My son is 16 and a half years old. His friends all recently turned 17. What I notice is that their parents, meaning the friends’ parents, seem to be out of the picture already and have let go of consequences and boundaries. These kids are not bad kids, but I’m worried now that I realize these friends will be 18 before he is.
What I want to know is are there any tips or tricks for this transition period? Right now, I had the idea to encourage my son to expand his circle of friends to include younger kids, like two friends that he has immigrate below him. I have been looking, or sorry, I have been losing a lot of sleep over this lately. My kid is a good kid and causes no real problems. His older friends are okay.
But of course, their brains aren’t fully developed, so they can’t always make the safest decisions on their own. And I worry about their influence on my son as they get older. Thoughts.
Paul (15:33.54)
Yeah, well, mean, gosh, teenage boys, they can be pretty darn impulsive, right? So I can understand the concern. And especially like that thing of him turning 18, 16 and a half, you have a little bit of time, you know? And so the first thing is please take care of yourself. If you’re experiencing restless nights at this age, you know, as it gets closer to 18, I imagine that’s gonna continue to build. for yourself,
Just being able to vocalize that you know you have a good kid, give yourself a pat on the back and trust in the fact that you’ve already done a good job. And of course, you want to build in this idea of helping your son be discerning. What does it mean for him to make decisions for himself? What does it mean for him to actually understand his impulsivity?
Kind of like the previous story, I’m gonna encourage every single parent in the majority of situations, be curious, right? Not curious in like an investigative, like put them under the interrogation lamp of curious, but more about like, hey, how’s it feeling being out with those guys? And how are you doing with like being the younger guy?
What’s that like for you? I mean, that sort of direct question might get him thinking about it. And who knows whether he’s, I mean, again, that age, they start to get those blinders, right? They start to shut the world out and you might not hear the answer that you were hoping to hear. And so it is about sometimes asking questions that are like planting seeds and you’re actually helping them develop their insight or their own curiosity about their process. So.
How you doing with like knowing that substances are out there? What’s that been like for you? And again, you might not hear a very clear, direct answer or you might get the side eye or, and that is again, normal. It is about like saying, hey, I would love for us to be able to have a conversation like this. I would like us to have this feel like a normal conversation. So right now you have the opportunity to deepen your relationship with your son.
Robert Trout (17:27.159)
Yes. Yep.
Paul (17:51.76)
before he gets to that 18 year old age and he’s pushing back and really claiming that autonomy and really stepping away more fully, you’re setting the stage for that relationship. So normalize curiosity, normalize vulnerability. And in fact, oftentimes when it comes to a coaching aspect, that starts with you. Start with being a little bit more vulnerable yourself. Tell him about your day. Tell him about how you’re feeling about certain things. You don’t have to dump, but be…
Robert Trout (17:54.711)
Yes.
Robert Trout (18:18.593)
Yes.
Paul (18:21.102)
be willing to show up and have a more collaborative sort of peer to peer, not exactly peer to peer, but you get the just style of conversation.
Robert Trout (18:32.503)
Well, let’s be clear about this. We talk about this in a lot of our online trainings and things that we do with parents. This is the moment. 16 and a half, he’s right in there of that moment where this is not going to be your kid much longer. That’s part of the problem we face with young adults is that parents are still trying to teach and talk to them as children versus that.
Paul (18:34.37)
Ahem.
Robert Trout (18:57.247)
At this age, I’m going to start sharing with you the reality of my adult life. And that’s what you just said, a little vulnerability, not the whole thing. Let’s be absolutely clear about this. They are not your therapist. They are not your partner. They are someone that is starting to learn to have adult conversations. So that starts with you. And by bringing them into that scenario, you’re setting the stage for them to say, well, you’re willing to talk with me.
I’m willing to talk with you. So we have to lessen our reactions to their life experiences and step into that mentorship teaching role that we can be for them where our relationship is now different, where it’s adult to adult is where we’re headed. I’m going to bring you into that category of conversation and trust and process by being your parent, but moving into that stage of saying, I am a parent with another adult.
and bringing them along. I that’s right of passage work is what we’re really looking at there. And that takes me to what I said to this family. I interacted with them actually from this post. And what I really got into was this statement of saying, it’s okay. It’s pretty normal that your kid just happened to end up to be the younger of the friend group and they’re all going to turn 18.
Paul (20:01.646)
Certainly.
Robert Trout (20:24.867)
So you might even want to invite those kids that their parents have let go of them, invite them in. Become safe for them and your son so that you’re the teacher and adult and the trust center that’s there. That’s one option to consider. Another option, which I think they really enjoyed, was getting into this, he’s 16 and a half and you want him to learn about making mature decisions. What about putting him in a mentorship role?
So not just expanding that friend group of like, hey, hang out with younger kids, give him a role where he’s coaching younger kids, being a big brother to really little kids. Like, letting him realize the influence of being older and more mature and needing to make adult-style decisions, not just for himself, but giving him purpose within the family.
purpose within the community and purpose within relationship to people who look up to him. There’s so many avenues available at that age. And what I really loved about this for anyone that’s listening, we don’t see very many posts where the parent goes, they’re good kids, my son’s a good kid, I’m worried. Like, that’s what really stood out to me. I was like, I’m gonna talk to this family. this is a little bit of your anxiety.
Paul (21:41.007)
Right.
Robert Trout (21:51.085)
putting on the scenario of all the things that can go wrong, we have to make sure that the parent understands like, can’t put that on them. You can put them in scenarios to grow. But if you keep looking at them saying, I’m worried you’re gonna do something stupid, all you’re doing is making them want to hide the stupid things they’re doing versus the, I know you’re gonna make mistakes and that’s okay and I’m here for you when you do make those.
Paul (21:59.984)
Yeah.
Paul (22:13.267)
You
Robert Trout (22:19.297)
mistakes, let’s work together to figure out how you can move towards being an adult. Two very different approaches there in language and technique, which a lot of our parents, I mean, that’s what we’re teaching them, is the technique of actually interacting and doing this with their kid and developing.
Paul (22:37.264)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (22:39.607)
Any final thoughts on that one?
Paul (22:41.712)
you
Robert Trout (22:43.139)
Or should we move on to scenario number three?
Paul (22:46.488)
Yeah, yeah, let’s move on to three.
Robert Trout (22:49.633)
Alright, alright, we’re gonna decrease in age again. We’re gonna go back. This is a 10 year old son. Alright, we have a 10 year old son, so this is a mom and a dad. We have a 10 year old son who’s always been small and skinny for his age. He recently shared that he’s being bullied at school completely based upon his size. He’s
always been a kind, really unaware kid, but the teasing has now started to make himself conscious. We’ve taught him to stand up for himself, but he fears that it will only make the bullying worse in a town where everything is centered on how athletic you are. He’s really struggling. Any advice?
Paul (23:39.536)
Mm-mm.
Paul (23:43.382)
Yeah, it is interesting to hear that the environment is more geared towards athleticism. Right. And so the first thing that comes up is the boy’s self-esteem, right, and being able to reflect back to him the
the strengths that he has. Maybe he’s an artist, maybe he’s a dancer, maybe he’s a musician, maybe he does something else, right? And there can be value in at the very least connecting him in with community that he can relate to, connecting him into community that he feels safe with, connecting him into an environment that ultimately he feels like he can be himself, right? And be accepted.
when it comes to the bullying side of things, I mean, gosh, we can go a hundred different ways, you know, talk. mean, yeah, Rob, how about you jump in and just get that part of the conversation going.
Robert Trout (24:37.271)
Yes, good.
Well, I mean, honestly, I whenever I get into the bullying conversation, I always say like this is a one off. It means that you have a one on one plan because it’s so much of how you do this. It depends on the personality of the kid, the goals of the family, where they live. There’s so many factors to creating an effective approach to work through a bullying scenario. So anybody that’s hearing this.
Paul (24:58.064)
Thank
Robert Trout (25:09.091)
I know that that sounds like a cop-out where I’m like, whoa, you need to talk to someone like us and create a plan specifically tailored for you. Well, I’m sorry. That is absolutely the truth because each family is different. And the reality of this post for me is that that 10-year-old might be completely right. That standing up for yourself in whatever way he’s been told
He might be able to read that scenario and go, that doesn’t work where I am. So first, like, OK, let’s take a breath and back up. Find somebody to help kind of coach the whole model to that. I agree to you about seeking safety. That’s a huge part where each individual family with the kid, whatever he’s into, there’s this whole like, OK, let’s make sure he has safe space each day, each week, something like whatever you can.
where he can just be himself and not be in that fear state. That’s going to be important no matter what. Now, for me, I step into this a little deeper and I go, okay.
Paul (26:08.312)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (26:14.817)
very often for 10 years old, I mean, he’s not even hip puberty. So if he’s smaller, like we have no idea what the next three or four years are going to really have an effect on for his size, his physical size. And there’s an element to this where I would coach any family in that scenario to hold space for the conversation with a 10 year old of saying, how would you like to be seen?
Not, what do they tell you? You are. Right? So too many people latch on to the what they say isn’t true conversation. Right? You’re great. Okay, hold on. We got to back up a little bit. At 10 years old, he is starting to get this sense of his place in the world and the family and society, et cetera. He’s not to individuation yet, but he’s close.
Paul (26:59.214)
Mm-hmm
Robert Trout (27:13.431)
So there is going to be some thought there. So I would make sure that any family in this type of scenario at that age range takes a moment to breathe and says, okay, I need to build a conversation for this kid, whatever sex they are, whatever age they are in that range, whatever it might be around who they want to be right now.
And how can we support you being seen in that way? By yourself and your family and those that are around because we need enough support around that identity for them to try it on and figure out what they want to do with that. So it’s kind of a counteraction to the bullying experience that he’s going to have at school. Thoughts on that?
Paul (28:07.02)
Yeah, I mean, I appreciate that approach. And, you know, I think it’s worth trying to, at the very least offer a couple of things to parents because they’re like, but it’s happening at school. Right. And so, you know, typically if a family’s reaching out to us at this point, they may have already tried to talk to a teacher. They may have already tried to talk to administration or a counselor on campus or, you know, PTA or.
Robert Trout (28:19.863)
Yep.
Paul (28:36.848)
I mean, I would imagine if those avenues haven’t been explored, that would be a good starting point. Let’s come back to your son and be curious about how has he been able to navigate it in a good way to this point and highlight his strengths in navigating that environment, right? And help him understand that
there might be ways for him to further keep himself safe while in that school environment or while in that social environment. And that could be, you know, talking to him about walking away, obviously, talking to him about moving towards a healthy adult, talking to him about, you know, making sure that he is expanding his social groups, if that’s also available, creating the space for him to
you know, find again safety within that environment. be curious about how your son’s doing it, how he’s been doing it. Because as you said earlier, Rob, like standing up for himself and him going, no, that doesn’t work. You’re, that means that your son has witnessed, you know, at least enough dynamics to understand what not to do. Right. And so building upon that, encouraging him to again,
be aware of himself, be aware of his environment, be aware of where he can go, where it’s best to not go. It’s great to think about it through three buckets and you’ll hear me echo this time and again. Skills supports environments. How can he take care of himself? And maybe this is him managing his own stress and like going to the bathroom and washing his face with cold water. Maybe it’s him being able to say, no, I don’t want to do that. Or actually, I think I need to walk away now. Or just…
you know, understand the dynamic and be discerning, supports who are the people that he can turn to, who should he definitely not, you know, engage with, right, being discerning about that. And again, environments. That side of the playground, probably not a place you want to go hang out. You know, that part of the cafeteria, that space within the classroom, that dynamic out on the, you know, basketball court.
Paul (30:54.916)
you know, being conscious about like the decisions and the situations that he’s putting himself in. again, generating some insight for him to feel empowered to make a decision. Because I think a lot of kids who are bullied, they feel very disempowered. They feel vulnerable. They feel kind of like set to the wolves, so to speak. And so being able to encourage like, hey, there’s choice.
You know, and I mean, we would use language like locus of control and things of that nature to really frame what is within your power to change, make a decision about, yeah, create space for, right? What can you change? What’s within your control? What can you do in that moment? What can you, you know, step away from and, you know, all the things that I had just mentioned? Yeah.
Robert Trout (31:49.239)
Yep. Very good.
Well, let’s move into our last scenario for today and kind of see where we close everything out.
Alright, this final one is an 11 year old girl. And this is coming from the father. Okay. My 11 year old daughter is struggling this year. She has been going through a tough time with friends and also through the beginning of puberty. A lot of things are changing. A growing issue is her ability to start turning small lies
into big ones and has started a pattern of gaslighting us. Even when she is caught red-handed, I’m going to come back to that later, caught red-handed with evidence, she refuses to admit fault and often escalates minor incidents into major fights. Even though the consequence for the minor offense would have been a simple apology.
I’ve tried explaining the importance of taking responsibility to her, but she does not want to listen and her go-to is to double down even when confronted with clear evidence that she did do something wrong.
Robert Trout (33:20.355)
Should I just state my point and leave it? Or when I start looking at what she’s done lately and that she started to include talking back and being absolutely disrespectful, do I try to engage in a different way? All of this seems to be based on emotional changes, but I’m really not sure. I am the only man in the house with three daughters.
and even a dog that’s a girl. I’m struggling. Any advice?
Paul (33:55.544)
Wow, I’d love to hear you like jump in on this one.
Robert Trout (33:58.243)
All right. So, I mean, this can go in so many different directions, right? Because there’s so much unanswered stuff. And it’s one of those things that I find difficult sometimes because we’re talking about very broad approaches to a very simple question and more information would help pinpoint strategies and interventions and processes that are there. But for me, I immediately went to, OK, hold on. What’s the power dynamic?
Paul (34:05.808)
Uh-huh.
Paul (34:10.128)
Certainly.
Robert Trout (34:28.041)
In this home that is driving this either as an emotional action or a behavioral action because there’s gotta be a driving thought here. Something is pushing her towards having this and you know, is it that she really wants your attention? You know going back to that and that may not be it. I’m just saying it’s like one of the things to consider is if she’s pushing this fight. I mean how many times have we found?
situations where the kid is completely stepping into this because fighting is the only way they get your undivided attention and That first came to me is like is that a driving force behind her like I have your undivided attention right now I’m gonna keep it and I know I mean that’s mind-blowing to so many parents that we’ve worked with but as we deconstruct it we really do find a lot that that’s what it really comes down to this is the only moment and
At the end of this he even said, like, I’m the only man in a family of three daughters, and etc. And it’s like, so the attention’s being split across a major field here, and this might be her only way to be identified and to find that connection point with you if there’s not a different way to do that. So there’s some relational work that could definitely come into play here. And then we look into the, what is this fight really about? Is it attention? Is it something going on?
where there’s a level of guilt about something and she’s been identified. We’ve run into that a lot, right? She’s the identified problem in the family. So she’s living up to the role she’s been given maybe in that dynamic. There’s so much unknown in that scenario that, know, I, God, sorry, this spins me out sometimes because it’s like, God, I could go in a thousand different directions with this.
I think my only advice based on just the little information we have is to change how you’re approaching her about whatever the incidents are. Right? Like sometimes that’s just the step one. Stop doing it the way you always do it as a parent. Surprise her. Do it in a different way. You know, deliver a piece of paper that says, I know this is what happened. This is what I’d like you to do. And there was no face to face.
Robert Trout (36:55.347)
conversation about it. It’s just this was this, you know, and that’s just a simple answer. But that’s actually been effective in the past for some people. It’s like, here, I know this is hard for you. Just read this and let me know what you think. And then they leave, you know, come up with a new system for those things. That’s my drawn out immediate response. It’s amazing how much emotion comes up from the hundreds of families that are like behind these stories sometimes.
Paul (37:12.624)
Mm-hmm.
Hahaha
Paul (37:23.896)
Certainly, certainly, yeah. I think to build upon doing it differently, one of the things that I think is pretty common for parents is that when they are coming up against something that just feels so volatile, when things are calm, they don’t wanna mess it up.
Robert Trout (37:24.065)
For me, it’s professional.
Paul (37:46.248)
They don’t want to engage that dynamic when it doesn’t exist. And in fact, I would say that that’s not a good approach. In fact, some of the most productive conversations you can have with your child about a pattern. And so this is the difference between your child’s the problem as compared to, we have this pattern that we’re in, and naming the pattern.
and being able to do it in such a depersonalized way. So it’s not you do this and you do this. It’s more like, hey, I noticed that, you know, when we’re in these conversations where it’s about he said, she said, and those sorts of things, it feels like it’s hard for us to actually like slow down. And in fact, it just gets built up in a big way. And I’m curious, like, what’s that experience like for you?
because I can tell you’re uncomfortable and it’s certainly hard for me. And this goes back to something we said a little earlier, where being a little vulnerable and telling your side of your experience can actually support them in opening up themselves. Because that thing of questioning and holding and piercing and trying to get to the truth and trying to get around the back door of their lie and figure out a way to pin them down and she’s just slippery. She’s just slippery.
You know, and so when I think about like a kid who is quote unquote slippery, meeting them in a moment when they’re actually not dysregulated, meeting them in a moment when they can maybe be receptive and going back to something I said earlier, it might be just like you plant a seed. You might not have the conversation come to fruition in the first go and that’s okay. It doesn’t mean that the conversation isn’t valuable or valid. It just means that you’re going to have to work to normalize it.
So being able to work through these processes, you know, if this pattern has been going on for some time and you see it increasing to unwind the pattern, it’s going to take time and it’s going to take more intention and it will definitely take you slowing down and as Rob said, do something different. So if you’re showing up and your, your eyes are crazed and you’re just like, why can’t you, you know, like be able to, if you know, you’re walking into that conversation, check in with yourself.
Paul (40:01.218)
Am I ready for this conversation? Can I keep my seat? Meaning, can I stay calm? Can I breathe through? Can I manage my tone? Can I not scream? Can I be less judgmental? Can I just show up in a way that allows for some compassion and some empathy and an offering of grace? Because when we offer that, and again, it might not show up the first time.
or the second time you do it, but the fourth, fifth, maybe seventh time, there might be a softening that you’ve actually been dying to experience with your child.
Robert Trout (40:35.041)
Yep, absolutely. I think that could be our closing comment, really, is that so much of this type of scenario is based on the regulation factor. She’s regulating off of you. So if you show up, because this is a pattern, you show up in the conversation ready for the fight because you know she’s going to lie. Well, the truth is that she might be lying because that’s the expectation that’s set by the scenario that you’re showing up.
Paul (40:45.273)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (41:05.857)
Our kids regulate off of us. They just do. And that’s a part of the puzzle. It’s not the solution, but it’s definitely a part of it to consider.
Paul (41:16.784)
Yeah, there’s that classic thing of everything you say and you don’t say. They’re paying attention. Everything you don’t, everything you do and you don’t do, they’re watching. Even if their head’s down in a screen, every once in a while they look up from that screen or their ears are always perking up. Even if they have a headset on, they’re trying to like be aware. Like, how do I, is this affecting me? Am I going to have to deal with this? You know, and so kids are attentive even if you think they are. So again,
Robert Trout (41:20.728)
Yes.
Robert Trout (41:30.053)
Hahaha.
Robert Trout (41:42.605)
Yes.
Paul (41:44.386)
It’s a dynamic, it’s a pattern. How are we reflecting and showing up together?
Robert Trout (41:51.307)
Absolutely. Well, from parent trainers, we hope this has been a helpful episode and that you maybe find some relation to some of these families that are going through struggles. We all go through them. If you have kids involved, then there’s a process of relationship and development and neurological processes. And I mean, it’s endless, the things that we’re growing into every day, every moment of a year as you’re going through this process as a family.
So thanks for listening. Come check us out at parenttrainers.com and join the community and ask your questions and the coaching and all the things that we can provide you to find your answers to a lot of the scenarios that are so specific to you and your family. And again, thanks for listening.
