Robert Trout (00:05.486)
Hello and welcome to the podcast. Today on Parent Problems Today, I’m joined by Paul Arradondo, who is one of the trainers working within this parent trainers organization. And today we’re bringing you a conversation that is very difficult for some parents to really sit down with. Today we wanna talk about parents seeing their own shit in the scenario of working within a family system.
with their loved one. Very often what happens, Paul correct me if I’m wrong, but at least from my point of view is I’m helping a family. There’s a certain point reach with most people where it’s like, okay, we’ve been spending most of the beginning time talking about your kid and their behaviors and their diagnosis and their patterns and all of these things and then we run into the point where at least I feel like I have to be the one that say whoa, okay, hold on.
Hold on. That’s not all of what we need to talk about here. We need to get into the parents, their story, their shit, as we call it, very often. It’s like, here’s your process of your life experience. It sets your triggers and your reactions and your process and that. And very often, it can be an uncomfortable moment, where it’s like, we’re not just here.
to talk about what your kid did. The reality is, is you did something after they did something. What do you think of that, Paul? Oh yeah. Yeah, that’s a great point. Very often, the kid is already in reaction mode. You’re absolutely right. And the parent may not even know that they set the stage, right?
Paul (01:37.252)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (01:42.26)
Or maybe before they did something. Right.
Paul (01:54.107)
Right.
Paul (01:59.068)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it goes back to, I mean, you said every single parent walks in with their own history, right? I mean, and if we take it way back, every single parent has been raised by their parents who inform their parenting style in one way, shape or form, right? Or in many ways, right? You know, and it’s fascinating to think about, like, from the age of zero to four are…
Robert Trout (02:19.154)
Oh, absolutely.
Paul (02:26.584)
Our attachment schema is pretty much set, our self-worth, our ability to, or our patterns around communication, love, fear, anger, shame, all those things. Those things are just in there. And so when we talk to parents about like, how are you showing up besides what’s happening with your kid, really what we’re asking them to do is be self-reflective. Because when you walk into an environment,
be it with a friend, be it with a coworker, be it with a family member, you are impacting that environment. You’re impacting those people. How are you showing up? What are you bringing into the table? If it’s out of your awareness, then you’re probably not even sure how you’re impacting the moment. You’re not clear about it. So being able to slow down and develop that insight about their own personal process is just as important and sometimes more important.
Robert Trout (03:15.242)
Yep.
Paul (03:25.7)
than what’s going on with their kid. Because as we’ve talked about many times with every single parent, you are the anchor for that family system. The kid’s brain is not developed yet enough to manage, you know, emotional resilience, stressors. You are the anchor. If you are dysregulated, they’re gonna be dysregulated. Right, so how are you showing up? That’s, it’s a big topic.
Robert Trout (03:46.835)
Yes So what I want to focus on today in this episode is kind of how do we how do we help parents So if you’re a parent and you’re listening to this podcast Paul what I’d like us to do is talk about some of the strategies that have helped parents figure out even what they’re showing up with because that it sometimes is a tall order for
Paul (04:12.442)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (04:14.702)
and do that self-assessment, right? So very often you have to implement some form of skill for you to reorient the process. So very often for me at least, it comes down to the parent stopping and saying, okay, hold on, I have been, and I admit that I am hyper-focused on blaming or putting the energetic focus on my child. Their problem.
Paul (04:17.212)
Sure.
Paul (04:42.767)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (04:44.354)
their pattern, their reaction, their whatever. It doesn’t matter. Like the parent does that. So for me, looking at strategies and kind of things that have developed over the years of doing this work, where it’s like, okay, hold on, let’s back up a little bit. We have to start with you. And I’ll kick it off here. I have a favorite that I kind of adapt. And this is a self-assessment tool that I wanna offer to all of our families out there.
I have parents write me if they’re working with me, but you can do it just for yourself at home write yourself a Report or outline or letter or however you think of these things whatever format is kind of irrelevant but you’re going to write yourself a Why was I qualified to be a parent letter? Where I have my parents literally
kind of create a resume of, well, oh, I decided that I was going to be a good father or a good mother or et cetera. I knew I was ready for this because, and then they go through their history that you’re talking about where it’s like, well, my parents were great parents, so I was going to be a great parent. And I helped them kind of dig into that because I don’t want a general overview of, oh, well, here’s why. I want a…
Okay, the details are is I knew that I knew how to discipline because this is how I was disciplined or how I learned to do it. And I help parents kind of deconstruct their history, which is not always from their parents. Sometimes it’s from grandparents. Sometimes it’s from watching other consequences and patterns of behavior or work within a dynamic at church or any religion for that matter. It’s like…
Paul (06:29.814)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (06:41.846)
Well, here’s a list of what I knew I was supposed to do. Here’s what was right or wrong, or here’s like, where did you learn that? That’s what I really want the parent to get into is, I became qualified to be a parent because, now fill in that blank, right? It is a letter to me, to themselves. Some people just do bullet points. Well, I knew about this, and et cetera. And I love that one.
because it always gives me so much ammunition to use, where it’s like, oh, okay, hold on, let’s take that one, because it’s full of gunpowder, and now let’s start to deconstruct. You were taught to do it this way by your father, for example, maybe that one thing, and I can tell just in the inflection of them reading the letter that one has a story behind it.
Paul (07:17.059)
Thank you.
Paul (07:30.781)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Paul (07:40.7)
Sure.
Robert Trout (07:41.242)
The parent then gets to go through and like, oh well, I did this, my dad did this, this is how he talked to me, and I never did that thing again. Whatever it might be, there’s energy in the story. So we’re really seeking, right? We’re seeking those moments of, okay, let’s find the stories that carry emotional weight and energy.
Paul (07:56.984)
Right. Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (08:08.218)
And let’s deconstruct those because I can almost guarantee that the energy from those stories is spilling over now with this parent to their child. However, in most circumstances, the result of that historic way of doing this thing is not the same. You know, the parent very often will say, well, I never did that again.
Paul (08:19.932)
term.
Robert Trout (08:34.902)
But their kid keeps doing the same thing, or actually their behaviors are intensifying dramatically, even though they did it the same way, right? And that same way is very often the, okay, we have to get rid of the same way. We have to train ourselves out of what we think is the correct solution just because it worked for us or worked for our brother or sister or worked in that past scenario that we remember, and let’s reorient. So that’s a huge one for me.
Paul (08:45.239)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (09:05.519)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (09:05.781)
Any reflections from that or anything you want to add?
Paul (09:08.556)
Sure, I mean, just something that came up right there at the end is like, parents have attachments, right? Attachments of who they should be, who they think they need to be, who their parents were for them, or who their parents weren’t for them. And so one of the things that is really challenging for any parent in a process of change is the unlo-
Robert Trout (09:30.862)
Hmm.
Paul (09:31.568)
the unlearning of the patterns that actually are, that they have like this kind of death grip on, right? Like my kid should do what I say, right? My kid should get up off the couch when I tell them to get up off the couch. Like that sort of mentality or that sense of desire for respect.
desire for control, desire for, or attachment to these concepts or these ways that maybe they showed up as kids. Like, well, my kid should just be the way I was. I was respectful of my parents. And so parents have to actually take a step back and go, oh, wait a minute, these kids are in a different place. And actually I’m in a different place. And I’m not even the same person as my dad was. I didn’t grow up in the same life experience that my dad had my mom.
Robert Trout (10:11.848)
Yes. Right.
Paul (10:28.408)
You know, so how are they showing up? What are they, you mentioned not only the life experience of, you know, who they were raised by, but also their environment, their church, their them witnessing other parents’ parent, them witnessing other adults’ mentor, coaches, participate in rearing, you know, young people. So we all kind of like piecemeal who we are through throughout life and adapt things and adopt things and evolve. And you know,
Robert Trout (10:50.163)
Yep.
Paul (10:58.508)
ideally evolve, but when it comes to generating that sense of, you know…
Robert Trout (11:00.526)
Yeah.
Paul (11:08.4)
Who am I and how do I show up? It definitely takes that skill of pausing, right? Coming way back to the beginning of this conversation, how do we help parents get out of their own way? Right, they have to slow down. They have to have the capacity to slow, they have to have the willingness to slow down, right? And some of that is letting go of that idea of control. Right, yes, we’re going to generate an environment with which the kids operate in.
We’re gonna get clear about expectations. There is management of that. And there is the idea of being with them in a good way to help them understand right from wrong, correct behaviors, way to be a model citizen or be a member of a family. And we’re trying to provide an environment for them to operate within. And so parents being able to take that step back from some of those concepts or those attachments can be really challenging.
Robert Trout (11:55.711)
Yes. Oh, absolutely. And you just triggered me.
Paul (12:09.444)
Hehehehehehe
Robert Trout (12:10.338)
Yeah, well, I I’m reflecting within this trigger where I have so many families that I’ve had to help them understand that the world is different than it used to be. Sometimes we get locked in right like. We see our lives, but we’re seeing it through the lens of our entire life experience versus coming to the present day moment and witnessing that the present day moment is very different than the past.
Paul (12:19.754)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (12:40.098)
We it’s really hard for a lot of people to do that because they consider the correct version of reality to be kind of a spectrum of all of that versus an understanding that For me at least parents that are 38 and above today they have memories from my past social structure of Life family culture, etc. That is very different
than 38 and below. And 38’s a rough cutoff for me, where it’s like, okay, if you’re 38 and a parent today, what we’re seeing there is you remember a time when the internet was not this major influential thing. It was a tool, universities were getting it installed, like we were getting ethernet cables back then, like we’re don’t even talk about wifi.
Paul (13:11.228)
sure.
Paul (13:33.52)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (13:36.242)
But anywhere from 38 and up, like you remember this infrastructure coming into existence and no one quite knowing the impact of that alone. That’s just one example. Like the internet changed so much about how society operates and how we work and how we interact with people. And honestly, after that, so if you’re a parent out there and you’re 38 or below,
Paul (13:45.36)
Sure, of course.
Robert Trout (13:59.594)
You probably do remember where social media started to come in and to influence you and your friends and people connecting with people all over the world to accomplish work, social structures, learning about each other, those type of things where our worlds became exponentially bigger when that started to become normalized to have the internet and be able to communicate across the board. Well now kids
that are in this day and age that they’ve never known anything but Wi-Fi and the internet and cell phones like the iPhone, you know, and everything it does. So what’s come up for me in that is I have to sometimes educate grandparents and parents where it’s like, hey, I need you to forget where you came from for a minute because you don’t understand where your kids at. So actually doing lessons and maybe that’s a whole podcast episode in the future is
Paul (14:43.227)
Right.
Paul (14:47.35)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (14:56.406)
Let’s look at a modern snapshot or a snapshot of what it’s like to be a kid now and what the influences are and kind of what we’re seeing in neurological development and patterning. Because for me back before even that one change like you were saying coaches were developing and I’m not talking about life coaches I’m not about baseball coaches and football coaches and those coaches.
Paul (14:56.412)
Sure.
Paul (15:03.715)
Uh huh.
Robert Trout (15:26.434)
They were major figureheads in developmental social structure. And they are much less so now than they used to be. And one of the major reasons I can make that statement completely confidently is because kids are being raised by kids on these platforms, social media platforms, et cetera, where a parent can implement a consequence that to them should have been like, oh, well, they’ll never do that again. But then that child…
Paul (15:26.523)
Right.
Paul (15:34.076)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (15:55.334)
is going online and finding 50,000 people that are liking their video response to what their parents just did and how outrageous it is that there’s this thing and you know they’re getting fed information of what’s right and wrong not from social structures locally not from coaches teachers and people they’re getting fed by people who are outlying with them right or wrong
Paul (16:22.464)
Mm-hmm. Sure.
Robert Trout (16:24.59)
They’re just allying with their story. And in that way, we’re seeing the result not being impactful from a lot of old structures of consequence and interaction in that. So for me, when we’re looking at this, like, okay, parents are showing up, they’re reacting from their own shit, from their process, right? Like here it is, and from their emotional experience.
Paul (16:27.238)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (16:47.493)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (16:50.462)
And they may actually come up with something that if their child was in the same time period that they were, yeah, it absolutely would have worked. But today it’s going to be completely ineffectual. And I mean, heck, let’s be honest, some things will even get you in trouble now. It’s like, you know, you can whip your child and that child can go on social media, report it, show the bruises, etc. Well, guess what? Child Protective Services is going to show up at your door.
Like it’s a whole new paradigm of what’s right, what’s wrong and we see that, right? Of people arguing, well, we should go to this way or that way or et cetera. And that’s not what we’re discussing today. But what I do wanna look at is like you’re showing up and the world is different. So because the world is different, now the parent can be frustrated too. It’s not just the kid, but the parent is frustrated cause it’s like, well, what can we do? What should we do, et cetera.
Paul (17:22.428)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (17:28.281)
Right.
Robert Trout (17:45.738)
And with all that uncertainty, there’s so much room for error now.
Paul (17:50.497)
Oh, sure. Yeah.
Robert Trout (17:54.922)
Within that, I am going to step back into, OK, if we’re looking at this from a standpoint of helping parents assess, I’m curious what your thing. I have my parents write me that letter. What do you do? What’s one tool that a parent can do to start figuring out, wait a minute, how am I showing up?
Paul (18:13.564)
Great, yeah. So, I mean, the conversation that I like to have is, first, how were you raised? Right, because that’s a really fascinating conversation of was your parent controlling, micromanaging? There’s all this language around helicopter parenting and so forth. But, you know, was your parent present? Was your parent in your life, like talking to you about school, talking to you about relationships, talking to you about…
who you want to be growing up, right? Or were they just a disciplinarian, right? Or was your father absent? A lot of folks in our generation, their fathers were the working man and they just weren’t present, right? And so that impacted them growing up about who a father is, how emotional a man can be, or…
Robert Trout (18:58.991)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (19:07.696)
who the mom is and the role of the mom, which is a much bigger burden in a lot of family systems. And so that imbalance and how do the parents come together and co-parent, which is a huge conversation, right? How do they communicate? So that’s some of the parent shit is like, how do they show up? How are they communicating their wants, their needs, their hopes, their fears, because ultimately that’s where they’re operating from.
Robert Trout (19:21.47)
All right.
Paul (19:36.704)
Right? And so when it comes to, you know, who are you as a parent? I’m controlling, I’m the disciplinarian, I’m the one who’s tender hearted and willing to sit in the motions of it, or I’m the fixer or I’m the problem solver, or I’m the rescuer, you know, being able to talk through these labels to get at least some perspective about who am I in these moments can then actually create some clarity around, well,
Has it been working for you? Or let’s recognize where your child is at developmentally. That’s no longer your job. Your job isn’t to fix them. Your job isn’t to rescue them or problem solve them. Your job is to create space for them to figure things out on themselves and then do their own adulting, especially when they’re teenagers and beyond, right? And so it’s again, still holding a container with expectations, but doing it in a different way. And so rites of passage for parents.
That’s something that I like to talk about in that framework of, hey, when they were kids, you did a great job, you helped them survive, they’re alive, you did great, good job. Okay, now let’s talk about what’s next. Let’s talk about how you grow a healthy adult. And now let’s talk about what it means to take a step back and actually grieve the process that you’re no longer the teacher. And that’s an unlearning as well, right? You’re no longer the keeper of wisdom for your child.
Robert Trout (20:37.147)
Thank you.
Paul (21:04.792)
You’re no longer the rescuer, the problem solver. And so when I have that conversation with parents, it’s like a light bulb turns on, or at least the dimmer switch starts to go a little brighter. And there’s an opportunity for parents to go, wait a minute, what is my role? How do I redefine myself as a caregiver? What does that mean to show up and still hold a boundary, but not actually be the one to teach them about that boundary? How do I do that? What is that?
Robert Trout (21:16.558)
Right.
Robert Trout (21:21.814)
Right. Yeah. Right. Nope. They also open up conversations about resourcing, because sometimes parents have to admit what they’re not. Right? It’s like.
Paul (21:34.708)
And so those are fascinating conversations to have and help parents actually clarify like, yeah, who do you need to be for your child?
Paul (21:46.588)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (21:49.88)
Right. Yeah.
Robert Trout (21:51.914)
Parents can’t be everything. And that’s also something that’s different. Well, through the generations of parents that we work with, we see that separation where a lot of families are like, well, our kid was raised by the neighborhood, right? Like there wasn’t a, oh, well, I have to be all of this. And that does feel very different for families that are younger.
Paul (21:55.028)
nor should they be. Yeah.
Paul (22:07.541)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (22:16.47)
Younger parents that are working and saying well, I do feel all alone. I do feel like I have to do all of this And there has been at least in American culture from what I have seen and witnessed and learned through classes and education series that there is a difference now where parents are Being kind of pushed into this place of You are supposed to Raise this child
And a lot of the attitude of that is you manage your family and I’ll manage mine. And that comes from both directions. Some parents just have that, you leave my kid alone, I’ll take care of it. Right. And then there’s the other side where it’s the community or society saying, your kid is not our problem. So it’s an attitude shift that for whatever reason has happened and does impact that feeling of how supported is a parent.
Paul (22:52.117)
Bye.
Paul (22:57.859)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (23:06.492)
Sure. Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (23:14.078)
in the process of parenting. And as we look at that, there has to be a level of, okay, if we’re working on a parenting process within a family system, there is a process of stepping and saying, okay, what are you not either capable of, have the energy for, or just your personality is not made for this? So now we have to start that, yeah, what’s sustainable?
Paul (23:37.153)
Yeah, what’s sustainable?
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (23:40.882)
And then it’s the, okay, we may not have that like group of neighbors down the street that’s going to step in and hold that boundary with your kid because they’re not listening to you on it. Because again, that like, well, not my kid, not my problem. Well, if that’s not happening anymore, we do need that. We absolutely need those external role models as external boundary holders, etc. that can hold and teach kids lessons as they developmentally go through the ages.
Um, so very often it’s okay, we need to find that and you may have to hire that or put it in where it’s like you do have a life coach for the kid or a big brother, big sister program or, you know, something where it’s like, okay, we need to start opening the mind of the parent to get out of that shit that they’re in of like, but I’m supposed to be able to do all this. Like, no, you’re supposed to facilitate it. Sure.
Maybe that’s a true statement. Even that I have a little qualm with. Like you’re facilitating this process, sure. And we need a team. We need to build people around you and around your kid that are all interacting in a way that’s helping whatever is going on for this kid. And if a parent’s listening to this podcast is probably because they’ve run into some problems. So.
Paul (24:51.672)
Right.
Robert Trout (25:07.51)
Some things are like, oh, we don’t know what to do about this. Are our kids not responding at all to what we’re doing? Well, here’s a major hint to everybody. It can’t be just you. If it’s just you, I can almost guarantee that that’s part of why we’re in this scenario. So it’s resourcing out to find the people and the processes, the sports, the coaching, the…
Paul (25:32.696)
Mentoring. Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (25:32.914)
after school programs, the volunteering, the job. Oh my God, that’s one of my favorites, is to get a kid a job. And to facilitate like getting a life built outside of the family dynamic for both the parent and the kid. And that’s a huge one for me actually. It’s amazing to me the number of parents that are like, well, my job’s the kid. That’s all I’m doing. I just have to keep this kid alive and safe and not let them get in trouble again. And I have to watch, you know, and be there.
Paul (25:39.095)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (25:45.258)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (26:01.858)
Like, whoa, hold on. That’s your shit. That’s your reaction. That’s where you’ve reached. We need to break out of that. We need to get to that place of, okay, you’re saying, kid, you need to go play basketball with this big brother, big sister person that’s gonna come in. Well, guess what, mom? You need to go have social hour with moms or go play golf or go, I don’t care. You need to go. Like, you can’t just direct.
Paul (26:05.361)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (26:30.422)
you need to experience. And ironically, a lot of kids actually learn that way where you’re at dinner and you’re talking about how you had this great day on the golf course with your friends and the kid is learning from the story of, oh, I’m not all moms focused on. And so I had some breathing room, right? Like I got to experience being me because mom was being her. And very often the reaction that we see is that
Paul (26:32.381)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (26:41.135)
Right.
Paul (26:51.646)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (26:59.822)
coming together or imprisonment is as the kids speak about it. The kid will say I’m in prison here is because they’re being watched all day every day and there’s usually a parent in the dynamic that has like that’s become their job. Like, okay, we have to get rid of that. Like that’s never gonna work. And that’s part of this like you need to recognize that whatever roles have developed if they’ve developed from a place of crisis.
Paul (27:08.762)
All day.
Paul (27:15.502)
Uh huh.
Robert Trout (27:27.978)
or a place of your reactionary shit that’s coming out, like there’s the work that also needs to be done. It’s not always gonna be about the kid. It’s about, okay, hold on, let’s break this apart. And that alone will start to shift the whole family dynamic. And very often the kid learns more from watching what the parent’s doing for their health and their regulation and their process from that.
Paul (27:54.624)
Right. We often talk about, when we do our trainings with a family, that your wellness has to come first. Right? It starts with self. And then the second aspect is the co-parent or the co-caregiver or, as you said, team. Then comes the child. That’s so counterintuitive for every single parent we ever share that with. And the reason being is because there’s that…
Robert Trout (28:01.675)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (28:16.438)
Yes.
Paul (28:19.496)
misconception of my child comes first and I need to and I’m being selfish if I don’t have it set up in that fashion. But actually there’s that piece of just reality around like if you’re not taking care of yourself how good of a parent can you actually be? If you’re not slowing yourself down and going and getting that massage, going and having your sense of belonging in a friend
you know, whatever that is, getting away from your family. If you’re not having your own balanced life, you’re probably gonna just feel exhausted, feel frustrated, maybe even feel resentful towards your child. And so if you’re not taking care of yourself, how do you expect to be a good parent? Are you getting good sleep? Are you exercising? Are you taking care of yourself on the most basic of levels, nutrition, hydration? You know, it…
Robert Trout (29:03.619)
Yep.
Paul (29:18.38)
It really is your job to first take care of yourself, to then be able to show up for your kid. So it’s your shit to take care of yourself. If you’re not doing that, then that ends up actually impacting your relationship with your child, impacting your relationship with your partner, with your co-parent, with your co-caregivers. You’re just more irritable, you’re more frustrated, you’re more impatient, you’re less capable.
Robert Trout (29:28.628)
Yes.
Paul (29:48.268)
So acknowledging that you have to actually start with yourself, and that sometimes also means therapy. That sometimes also means taking a step back and doing some healing work for yourself. Because as we’ve said early on in this conversation, you’re bringing your life history with you, your trauma, your fear, your anxiety, your shame, your guilt about who you were or what you weren’t able to do or what you want your kid to do because you couldn’t or you didn’t or you should have or…
Robert Trout (29:48.427)
Yeah. Yes.
Paul (30:16.364)
You did some, so now they have to, all of those stories get in the way of you actually showing up and meeting your kid where they’re at. So doing your healing work to be able to not be as reactive. And developing skills that when you are reactive, you can slow down and still see your kid for your kid.
Robert Trout (30:28.107)
Yeah Yep, and I think all that you just said is a part of this self-assessment
Those questions are you caring for yourself on all these levels? Which goes back to like the letter I was talking about where you wrote, like, this is how I’ve, I became qualified to be a parent or how I learned to parent, whatever you want to say. Well, now you have to deconstruct that list. Okay. I learned to be a parent because my dad had all these rules, et cetera. Great. Are those rules something that you do? Because there’s a pendulum effect. At least I find a pendulum effect. And most.
Paul (30:40.385)
Exactly.
Paul (30:44.602)
Right?
Paul (30:56.866)
Exactly.
Paul (31:07.053)
Right. Sure.
Robert Trout (31:09.098)
parent coaches and trainers across the board will talk about how there’s kind of there’s a spectrum, but there’s two outcomes, right? The first is the parent that’s I parent the way I was parented and then, and, and sometimes even more extreme or remember the pendulum, it’s swung. Well, I, you know, I don’t want my kids to do what I did. So I’m going to be even more firm than my parents were.
Paul (31:21.318)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (31:35.138)
The pendulum to that, however, is the other group of parents. And again, it’s a spectrum. It’s not a this or this. It’s just the spectrum. Because the other end of that is, oh, I’m not parenting anything like I was parented. I’m going to be different. And there’s where you find the, oh, well, I’m my kid’s best friend. Great. Who’s the mother then? If you’re the best friend, who’s mothering and creating the boundaries and doing all these things?
Or fathering for that matter. It doesn’t matter. My point is the pendulum swings one way or another usually And there’s an effect to that pendulum where you can show up and do that self-assessment To say what am I doing? And is it working? Well, guess what if you’ve gotten to the point where your kids struggling really hardcore With behaviors or mental health or whatever it might be
Paul (32:11.056)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (32:29.134)
The reality is, is wherever you landed on that spectrum, you are contributing to the container, the environment at home. The, and if you’re trying to become different, you have to stop, you have to slow down and recognize, well, here’s where I landed. I need to move. I need to be different to create a different container for this kid to live in and react in and be in to create a change cycle, a change environment.
Paul (32:48.004)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (32:56.61)
right.
Robert Trout (32:57.55)
for my kid, I can do this. So it is that self-assessment that allows the parent to begin a process of actually being helpful to their loved one. And this isn’t just to their kids. I mean, let’s be honest, we’re talking about human behavior in a lot of ways here. So if you want someone to change, the fastest way to do that is to change yourself. And I know that’s counterintuitive to so many people, but if you change how you set the stage, it changes their interaction to the stage.
Paul (33:13.827)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (33:19.355)
Right.
Paul (33:27.401)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Robert Trout (33:28.302)
So I love the metaphor change the game if that if that kid or person is so used to playing the game of monopoly Metaphorically with you right well go in and now start playing uno Because guess what if they played the rules of monopoly while you’re playing uno They can’t win and it’s one of the most foundational pieces of neuroscience that every human no matter how you develop Your brain wants to win
Paul (33:32.076)
Exactly. Yeah.
Robert Trout (33:57.89)
So change the game and you start to do that. Well, the self-assessment for the parent is to me, just you have to do this if it’s going to work out.
What do you think is the most critical question when it comes to self assessment in your, in your practice, as we’ve all been doing this work, what’s yours.
Paul (34:27.004)
Oh my goodness, there’s so many. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Robert Trout (34:28.878)
I know. I’m asking what’s your favorite maybe, or you’re the most like, you’ve seen the most aha light bulb moments. Like what do you think it is?
Paul (34:39.444)
Mm-hmm. I think…
Paul (34:43.492)
I’m not sure if it generates aha moments, but it generates direction, and it generates a sense of understanding of where a person might need to put a lot more intention, is what are your skills that actually support you in moving from reaction to response? What helps you in that moment when you actually have the ability to pause? What’s your skill that you use? How practiced are you in using it?
Robert Trout (34:59.732)
Hmm.
Paul (35:10.096)
How effective is it? Is it the right skill? Do you need to explore other skills? Because if you cannot slow yourself down in that moment, that moment’s not gonna slow down. That’s just the nature of relationship, especially with kids who, again, their brains aren’t developed. You need to be the anchor. You need to be able to self-regulate to then support them in coming in and meeting you in that regulated place. So being able to be with them in a good way.
How do you do it? Right, and so that’s a really fascinating conversation because there’s dozens and dozens of skills that a person can practice and employ. And some skills work better than others, depending on the situation. But broadening your toolbox is a very important aspect of being able to stay in a difficult moment, manage crisis, be in a moment where your child is snot bubbles curled up in a ball in their bed and not…
Robert Trout (35:45.154)
the
Paul (36:09.892)
fall apart as well. Yes, it’s heartbreaking. And how do you show up in care take in a way that is supportive rather than enabling? Is strong, but not controlling? Is present, but not, I don’t know, being overbearing? So being able to show up in a good way and have proper perspective.
Robert Trout (36:20.545)
Yeah.
Paul (36:36.668)
and be clear about is this an urgent moment or is this an important moment? You know, being able to have that clarity of thought actually starts with being able to understand that pausing and then applying a skill gets you to that clarity of understanding what a good next step for you as a caregiver is.
Robert Trout (36:54.158)
Yep so Yeah, I’m right there with you I’ve been reflecting on this question quite a lot lately actually because I found that without thinking I’ve entered into a cycle With parents where I will have them tell me What they think the right?
thing to do is with this kid in whatever the scenario, it’s kind of irrelevant, I have them, this is what I’m doing because it’s gonna make everything change. And then what I have done is that self-assessment is I’ll let them tell me, I’ll reflect back what they say, and then I’ll say, how many times have you tried it this way?
Paul (37:19.568)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (37:39.554)
Silence. Like 99% of the time, that question alone is the golden question. Where they realize they’re looping. Just like their kid. They’re just on opposite sides of the loop. Where they see the same behavior over and over and over and over again with their kid and they’re so hyper focused on their kid.
Paul (37:41.158)
Hehehehehehe
Paul (37:53.89)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (37:58.618)
Right.
Robert Trout (38:06.614)
That there was no moment of pause to say, whoa, hold on. What, wait a minute. I’m doing the same thing over and over and over again. So the kid’s looping behaviorally. Well, the parent is too. And that question alone is that moment where the parent goes, shit. And I go, that’s why we call it your shit. That right there. They’re like, oh, and it hurts.
Paul (38:15.201)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (38:27.91)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (38:35.91)
I acknowledge it hurts. I think we need to acknowledge like, Oh, you’re also in a pattern, right? Um, and this all comes out of the metaphor shit storms. It’s like if your kid shows up with their shit and you show up with your shit and you start throwing your shit at each other, that’s a shit storm. That’s, that’s why this metaphor works is if everyone shows up with their shit, it’s just a shit storm.
Paul (38:36.609)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (38:44.58)
Right.
Paul (39:04.932)
Right.
Robert Trout (39:04.998)
It’s not gonna feel good. There’s not gonna be any change. There’s not gonna be relationship building or rapport building that comes out of this, et cetera, which is why repair work is so important, right? But just looking at the interaction between the child and the parent and the parent telling the story, the parent always tries to do that, right? It’s like, look at their shit, look at their shit over there. Their shit, their shit. And for me, it’s that like, okay, hold on, hold on.
It was a shitstorm and that takes a lot of shit, not just their shit. It needed to have other shit. Where did it come from? So now we’re looking at that metaphor of like, okay, to prevent shit storms, you need to slow down and not show up with your shit. You need to recognize the reaction, stop the reaction, and now implement skill. So this self-assessment is if things aren’t going well, you’re a part of it. We need to find that.
Paul (40:02.083)
Uh huh.
Robert Trout (40:03.546)
We need to find that. So if you’re a parent out there listening to this, what we’re saying to you today is we need you to, whether you write the letter or just answer those questions about self-care or wherever you wanna start, we need you to realize that you’re a part of it. And part of the work is recognizing that you’re a part of it. The other thing that we’re gonna ask you to do is to start to dismantle it. Okay.
Paul (40:25.296)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (40:31.386)
I keep wanting them to change. The true power in skill development and implementation is realizing that you’re the one that can change first. Yay, you win the race. You win the race, go get first. You want first place here in the change cycle. And that’s where you’re gonna start to see hope and start to see patterns change. Am I right?
Paul (40:54.644)
Yeah, and it is, yeah, it is a family system. It’s a system. What you contribute to that system is what you’re gonna get out of it, right? It’s a mirror, right? And so who you are in that system is what you’re generating in terms of how you react, how they respond, you know, or react to you, you know, so your patterns actually perpetuate their patterns. That’s really the whole point of this.
Robert Trout (40:59.16)
Yes.
Robert Trout (41:18.998)
Yep, absolutely.
All right, closing thoughts, what do you think?
Paul (41:28.209)
I think that when asking a parent to step into this work and recognize that they are contributing to their child’s wellness or lack of wellness, one of the things that can really help ground them and support them in staying dedicated to a process of change is the change you’re generating for yourself is impacting your kids.
your grandkids, you’re working to shift your family culture. You’re working to shift how your kids see what parenting is because as we said in this conversation, you’re showing up in the way that your parents did or you swung the pendulum, right? And so let’s teach our kids healthy skills of communication, healthy ways to manage internal stress and traumas and fears and such. And we do that through models.
Robert Trout (41:56.579)
So, yeah. Yeah. Sure. Yeah.
Paul (42:25.328)
Right, we’ve talked about that. So again, you are a family system. What’s the health that you can bring? What’s the health that you can model? Because it starts with you.
Robert Trout (42:37.336)
It starts with you and it ends with you. That’s the real crazy part about all of this. I don’t really care how old the parent is or the child.
young adult where like and to be clear that’s what we’re talking about here. Like we’re not talking about six year olds. We’re talking about six, 12, 25, 38, 50. I don’t care how old the person is. Everyone’s showing up with their shit. So my closing thought with all of that is this. You be first. You want to do something? You want to actually create change? You want to help your loved one?
Paul (42:53.66)
Sure.
Paul (42:59.021)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (43:17.102)
show up first. Now you can do something. Now the family system can change. Because you showed up differently with better equip skills and process and, and an acknowledgement that you used to contribute to the shitstorm. Like, that’s hard for some people.
Paul (43:40.668)
One more thing about that, don’t expect them to change just because you did. Don’t expect them, don’t expect it to be immediate. Don’t try it once and say, ah, it didn’t work. Change comes with consistency, right? It’s the long game. Mm-hmm, yep. You gotta try something out and then you gotta practice it and then it has to be natural and then it becomes part of who you are. Like it doesn’t just happen and a part of your family.
Robert Trout (43:54.878)
Nope. Yep. It’s a long game. Parenting is a long game. Hahaha.
Robert Trout (44:07.999)
and a part of your family.
Paul (44:10.308)
Right, yeah, because then again, that then kind of bleeds into the system, right? But again, it starts at the core of yourself and understanding that there are things that need to change.
Robert Trout (44:22.254)
Awesome. Well, thanks, Paul. And if you’re out there listening to this and this resonates, check out our website and our processes and trainings. And we’re here. We’re here to help. Thanks.
