Robert Trout (00:02.394)
Hello and welcome to Parenting Problems Today, the podcast where we explore different subjects related to the struggles that our families are having at parent trainers and in the world of parenting. We’re all over the place. The reality is that parents struggle through so many different avenues with their kids when we look at the subjects of mental health, neurological development, and just overall defiance and development.
depending on what the family is going through. So today we’re coming to you. This is Robert Trout, your host, along with Mary Zaunbrecher from the Parent Trainers Team. And we’re coming with a subject that comes up a lot for our families in general. And we work a lot with tweens, teens, and young adults as far as development and mental health and kind of stabilizing families. But today’s subject kind of spans every age group.
And the reality is, is that we see this acted out in so many different ways. But the subject itself, every parent can relate to this. And that is how to prevent meltdowns and look at handling meltdowns once they’ve already started to occur. And let me be clear, the idea of a meltdown
is where so many families say, I get what that is. And they immediately think about what their child does. But this is a spectrum of behavior and reaction across the board. Everything from kids that you see in the grocery store kicking and screaming and throwing things all the way to kids refusing to get out of bed because they’re so overwhelmed with anxiety or anger or something.
you know, young adults who are getting angry and punching through glass windows or into walls or whatever it might be. This is a spectrum that cannot be defined by one word because it literally is a question of saying what feels manageable to the parent and what feels unmanageable to the parent. So we’re going to step into this conversation, but I invite all of you as the listeners to recognize that this is going to be a broad discussion.
Robert Trout (02:21.622)
looking at what we teach all of our families about when it comes to strategies of preventing meltdowns, but also recognizing when you missed it and it happened, what are some of the general things that every parent needs to step back and assess and then make a plan for as they’re working through the meltdown as it’s occurring with their kid? Again, it doesn’t matter how old they are. The truth is, is meltdowns aren’t related to just children.
This is a human reaction at all ages. We all have the capacity for a meltdown. But as a parenting podcast, we’re going to step back and focus on that. Mary, when you hear the idea of meltdowns, what’s the first things that come to mind for you and the families that we work with?
Mary (03:10.609)
Yeah, something that comes to mind kind of top of list is predictability and getting out in front of it. You know, like I work with parents who say, like every night at 7 p.m. he, you know, he crashes and he starts to like annoy his brother. I’m like, great. So every night. So what do you do differently?
Right? What have you tried? And it’s like, well, you know, we, we ask them to stop. It’s like, okay, let’s predict it’s going to happen again tonight. What’s the next thing we can do? What’s something new we can try? So a lot of just patterns and predictability and recognizing that a lot of times when meltdowns occur or tantrums occur or behavior that’s dysregulated and
you know, embarrassing in public occurs. When we step back and look at the bigger picture, a lot of times it’s really a matter of your child having a need that is not being met or that they’re trying to override or they’re trying to control something. And if we can look at what are the things that happened before or what are the ways that, you know, we’re handling airport situations or we’re handling the grocery store.
or we’re front loading, you know, here’s a plan if we start feeling upset, really being able to step back and look at patterns and say, what are the things we can manage that are inside of our control for our child? And then what are the things that we still have a little bit to learn about?
Robert Trout (04:59.244)
Absolutely. And the conversation for me when we talked about predictability really starts when I say to the parent, how do you know this is a problem? And there’s two categories for me. The first category is the parents that says, well, they reach emotional overload and they explode. And it’s like, OK, so it’s something that you have to track and keep your eye on as far as their tics, their
their like emotional show and tells that happened through the day. Because in that category, it literally is about recognizing and being the external gauge. I know that just increased your anxiety when we met that person or had that conversation or you weren’t allowed to buy that thing at the grocery store, et cetera. So in that category is just creating your own internal meter. And the predictability is that I know it’s coming today.
It’s not, it’s coming at three o’clock. It’s, I see what’s happening in this and we’ll get into the prevention measures about all that because for that category, it very much is about stopping the process of the day and building in release valves as you go through the day. So that category is one of the easiest to work with in my professional opinion, because it’s like, okay, we know it’s coming and we need to be observant and recognize that this child
doesn’t have the capacity to track this themselves. So there’s awareness and a tracking ability. That category, okay, let’s build a strategy. Category number two, however, is where predictability becomes so defined, like you said, at seven o’clock at night, they lose it. And that’s where it becomes so structured when we have to look at the routines and practices and what’s going on in the family dynamic.
Because at least for me and the families I work with, I have to be the one to say to them, you realize you’re part of that, right? Like you’re doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. I mean, the number of parents who’ll be like, well, I tell them to stop, you know, I tell them to lay down and go to bed. I like scream at them. I lose my cool. And for me, it’s like, okay, hold on. What that is, is a repetitive nature.
Robert Trout (07:24.78)
Not only is it predictable, but it’s a pattern that’s not changing on either side of the equation. And that’s a whole lot more work because by the time they usually get to the point of saying, I’m so tired, I need help, it’s an ingrained pattern in the family dynamic. Thoughts on that?
Mary (07:44.253)
Yeah, yeah, I’m giggling over here because, you know, there are a lot of parents who are like, you know, I asked them to calm down. And I the amount of times I said this, but like never in the history of telling someone to calm down, they’ve been able to calm down. Right. But it brings me to thinking like, you know, as an adult, we don’t even choose our meltdowns. Right. And a lot of times there’s like it’s wrapped up in shame and all of these these things. But
Robert Trout (07:56.346)
I hope you found this helpful.
Mary (08:14.003)
When we’re looking at a child having a meltdown, again, it’s really about there is a need that’s not being met or there is a pattern that I have played into me, the adult, with the working prefrontal cortex, with the ability to delay gratification and self monitor and regulate myself and not be this, you know, get into this tete-a-tete with our toddler or our
16 year old, right? To step back and say, if I have to do one thing differently, that’s all I have to do, right? And for some parents, like yesterday, I was like, you know, like we’ve tried all of these things. Like if it’s just shaking them out of that dysregulated state that they’re so ingrained in, like it can be running your head underwater while they’re talking to you. Or, you know, just throwing the environment off a little bit even, or
being able to say like, this moment may need levity or this kid just needs a hug and needs to know that someone’s here with him, right? Yeah, it just, there’s a way that, you know, there’s kind of a comfort for lot of parents that I work with and like, just change one thing. Don’t overthink it. Just change one thing to start out and let’s see what happens, right? Let’s monitor from there.
Robert Trout (09:41.092)
Yeah, break the pattern. I mean, there’s no greater lesson in working through a mental health episode than recognizing that the brain is doing its thing. And whatever you do, as long as it’s different, the brain hones in on the different because that’s unpredictable and the brain needs to determine is this safe or unsafe. So if you start doing something weird or
Mary (09:42.493)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (10:09.476)
turn and leave the room or whatever it might be, the brain locks on to the thing that doesn’t normally happen. And that helps the individual edge back towards a place of being more regulated. So let’s use this and just step immediately. Let’s focus on preventing for a little bit. And then we’ll split the conversation and step into like, OK, you tried to prevent, but it happened anyway. Now what? So let’s split this conversation into two.
There are some general best practices that come up every single time, at least for me, when we’re looking at preventing. And there’s the two categories, right? So step one is always the awareness of the parent, whether it’s an awareness of my child needs support in, you know, I’m going to track for them where they’re at on their scale of anxiety or
Depression or anger or frustration or whatever it is I’m gonna kind of track that and start to build a scale right so that awareness and then the other awareness on the other category is an awareness that I’m a part of this too, so I better take care of myself and Kind of step in and teach skills and kind of go through that but outside of those You get into some pretty basic things for especially the tweens and teens our youngest as we’re working through families that are doing that
Step one is a really really hard frustrating thing for parents is routine matters No matter what who you are listening to this podcast We cannot stress this enough routine is your best friend when it comes to working with these age groups and developmental patterns and even the kids that have like autism or some other developmental delay or something neurological going on routine establishes safety
because they count on the fact that every day at seven o’clock we start bedtime routine. And that’s brushing teeth, reading books, listening to music, whatever. Whatever it is for your family, it doesn’t matter. But routine is one of the greatest prevention measures because it allows them to say, when we get to this point, I can hold on to the predictability of that and know that everything’s okay. No matter what I’m dealing with emotionally,
Robert Trout (12:33.08)
We’re doing what’s normal, which is going to help regulation through all of that. So step one sounds simple. It’s not simple, but it’s one of those things that you can push someone that’s like, well, he’s getting really high on that scale. I’m going to start bedtime routine because it’s time for that. And just pushing into the routines will help.
Because it’s that like, I know this. I can do this. I do it every day like this. And that routine is amazingly helpful. Beyond that, we get into kind of understanding their personalized triggers. I was talking to a parent yesterday where this was the big thing. It’s like, there isn’t a simple answer for this big scenario you handed me. There’s not. There’s your kid.
where her grit level is at and where she can regulate and what she’s Translating this into for herself and that’s personality She’s taking this as a great hit or she’s saying no that was manageable Where are we at on that scale because the parent reaction? Needs to be in balance with that because sometimes the parent pulls the kid off Of the pedestal where they were going to be able to manage what was happening
But understanding their personalized triggers is a big part of that. Let me pause there. Mary, what comes up for you when we start looking at triggers for the kids?
Mary (14:02.311)
Yeah. You know, again, it’s just like this concept of I don’t have time for the meltdown. And oftentimes parents are like, well, I can’t I can’t, you know, manage this by adding a 30 minute break in the day. I don’t have time for that. But then when we really get into it, it’s like, well, the meltdowns last two hours or four hours. Right. And so
Robert Trout (14:11.322)
Hmm.
Robert Trout (14:29.39)
Hmm.
Mary (14:32.177)
let’s look at an actual timeframe for 30 minutes versus two or four hours, right? And really being able to, yeah, space and time and all of those things for kids when you know that there’s predictable behaviors. A lot of times it’s traveling and the overwhelm of an airport or it’s, yeah, it’s kids.
really wanting autonomy and not wanting to listen to the bedtime routine thing or right. It’s like all of these ways that we’re looking at just each person’s, each family system’s tiny, tiny nuances and working with those things, right. Yeah, it’s about building in co-regulation time, right, which means
you as the parent predicting this behavior, regulating yourself, and then helping your child through a set of skills and tools that we teach, right? How to help that child stay regulated or get to regulated or be regulated more often, right? And that’s what you’re talking about with routine, like creating that safety, like kind of the guardrails, right? Your child’s starting at a two rather than a five.
Robert Trout (15:50.882)
Yeah
Mary (15:59.005)
Right? So getting to the explosion or the meltdown takes more time.
Robert Trout (16:04.322)
Absolutely. Yeah, and to the parent that’s listening, if you’re doing work with one of our team or anyone, I hope they’re taking you through the understanding that routine includes preventative strategies, where your kid comes home and you can tell, right? Their body language, their tone, how hard they threw their backpack on the ground after school. These are all things parents are like, my God, we’re at a seven already. Just from one action.
And then routine steps in where it’s like, okay, I need to buffer the process that’s happening here. I’m not going to focus on anything other than like, for example, the three most common are them being hungry or dehydrated. They’re tired or they’re overstimulated. Those are the three most common. All of these are perfectly manageable and routine is one of those things where they come home and the first thing you do every day is hand them a glass of water and say, drink this.
It’s like, I’m going to start hitting these known vectors or factors that are playing such a huge role in the interactions that I’m having as a parent to my child. And this gets into a whole other category of teaching emotional skills, which is all about, take care of yourself and learn language to communicate where we’re at. I have some families, especially where the kids are on
maybe the autism spectrum or some kind of learning pattern neurologically where the kid comes home and the first thing they do after they walk through the door is walk to their chart and put a color coded like magnet or something that the parents have created where it’s like, this is where I’m at. They don’t have to say a word, but when you see the red stone, you know this is where they’re at. And it’s all about like, okay, they’re communicating in a way that works for them.
We’ve worked on that really hard. Now it’s time for me to help the process where it’s like, here’s your snack or some alone time or your earphones or we’re going to sit and watch a TV show together, together though, like hear that. This is about figuring out a way to connect and take care of and communicate through the strategies of doing so. And they’re learning from you how to do that. So whatever skills you’re using,
Robert Trout (18:29.842)
and developing. And that’s such a key word here, developing for them to communicate to you. Some kids are never going to be able to look at you and say, I’m really frustrated. They don’t have that emotional capacity or language to be able to do so. So the parent has to develop a method that works for both to understand each other and building that understanding is such a huge part of this.
Mary (18:58.558)
My mind’s going so many places, sorry. I actually had a friend and her toddler over the other day and she actually was able to say, I’m frustrated. And I was like, wow, that’s amazing that she has this vocabulary, right? But what comes to mind for me first as you’re talking about all this stuff is, yeah, the idea of like also giving your adolescent, right? Which is, you know, 10 to 25.
Robert Trout (19:00.762)
I
Mary (19:26.185)
choice, just a little bit of choice. Like we forget that, you know, they have an eight hour day of just, you know, I heard it said the other day, like, I have a bucket of yeses. And by the end of the day, sometimes that bucket of yes, or, okay, fine, I’ll do it is gone, right? And yeah, giving your your child scheduling in some decompression time some
Robert Trout (19:28.313)
Yes.
Robert Trout (19:46.158)
theme.
Mary (19:54.995)
self-care time, right, which is hydration, food, sometimes, you know, just any sort of comfy corner or noise canceling, you know, area or just being by themselves to kind of dump some of that overstimulation from the day and recognizing, you know, I think it really hit during COVID or after COVID where we were all kind of isolated for so long. And then as we started getting back out into social situations, we kind of
Robert Trout (20:12.974)
Mm-hmm.
Mary (20:25.009)
our social meter was a little different and we’re like, whoa, I used to like doing these things and now I actually recognize how tired I am, right? So being able to recognize those things in yourself, in your child and every child is so different, right? You’ve got the kids who just want to party and stay at grandma’s for days and days and days hanging out with the cousins. And you have the kids who need to go upstairs or to a back room and put on the noise canceling headphones and zone out for.
two hours, know, every couple of hours. Yeah.
Robert Trout (20:56.41)
Yep. Yep. I guess final notes that come up for me in this category of prevention is recognizing that everything we’ve talked about so far in this podcast, they all weave together. So if you’re the parent listening to this, it’s about recognizing that your kid’s going to come home. Maybe they’re one of those kids, just as an example, that come home and they’re already overstimulated because they’ve been around people all day and they have a process where they’re introverted or
They just need that emotional release. So it’s about then taking that and developing strategies that when they come home, there’s time automatically built into the routine where they get food and water and time to go through things. And then the final note from that for me is getting into the idea of the choices you’re offering them also must include front loading the language.
So you’re giving them choices and establishing the expectations by front loading what’s coming next or what’s going to happen later today or et cetera, but allowing them the time to hold that and still go take care of themselves. It’s like, what do you need to get ready for this thing? Here are some choices that would be helpful. Do you want this or this or that or that? And really demonstrating you doing it too.
Okay, so many parents miss this where they hand the glass of water to the kid, but they don’t drink water themselves. It’s like, wait a minute. And that gets into the, you are modeling the care and the space and the time and the communication where the kid walks in the door for some families and, you know, there’s a mom box and a dad box or whatever the family culture is or scenario is, like mom, dad, dad, it doesn’t matter. Like everybody has a box and in that box is a color.
Dad’s at a yellow, mom’s at a green, I’m at a yellow. Right, like you’re communicating with each other and that’s a very simplistic model, but I want everyone to hear, we’re not saying every family needs to do this. These are strategies of developing a communication method that works for you. So a lot of parents don’t need that. They have the capacity when the kid comes in, we sit down together, we eat and drink something, and then we talk about our day.
Robert Trout (23:22.916)
We allow each other to hear where we’re at. That could be what’s normal for you, but it’s all about that preventing meltdown by building in routine and healthy processes and developing a strategy to work through this. The greatest conflict I see, and Mary, I’ll jump to you in a second, but the greatest conflict I see are the families that don’t have anything they’ve built. They’re just winging it and expecting everybody to just take everybody else’s
crap and energy and we’ll figure it out, right? They miss the such important step of building a routine to allow this to happen in a way that works for the whole family system, even though it might not be ideal or it might take 20 minutes to do this or whatever it might be, but the parent is a part of that, so they have to work through it.
Mary (24:17.843)
So that just springboards me into this thought of like, a lot of times when I see the issues, it’s because parents have their own agenda. And by agenda, I mean like, well, I wanna hear about their day or well, this is just how we do it. This is how we’ve always done it, right? Or it’s disrespectful for them to have their headphones on in the car, right? And it’s like, all right.
Robert Trout (24:29.272)
Hmm.
Mary (24:46.493)
And again, let’s think about what is it you’re actually seeking from these moments and its connection. And in that moment, does your child actually have the ability to connect? Some of them, absolutely not, right? Some of them get in the car and like, my gosh, listen, what happened today, right? You don’t even have to prompt them. But oftentimes it’s that idea that, well, we’re a family and we’ve got to do this together or.
or it’s disrespectful to not say hello and talk about your day. you know, we’re looking at, yeah, I mean, that’s as an adult, you know, most often we can be in connection and conversation, even if we’re a little heightened or dysregulated, right? But your 10-year-old, your 14-year-old is still learning how to do that and how to manage everything.
the complexity of what’s going on for them, right? And so you being that safe space and being the person who doesn’t need anything from them, you’re just, hey, glad to see you, right? And then allowing them what they need and then having a conversation. Hey, I noticed lately in the car, you like to put your headphones on, you know, what does that do for you? What’s that like for you, right? well.
Robert Trout (25:42.862)
Yes.
Mary (26:06.493)
You know, it’s been so loud at school. My last class is PE and the gym is full of people. you know, it’s just totally over-signaling. So it’s really nice to be able to just zone out and listen to music, right? Great. Well, you know, I’m here to talk to you if you ever need to talk in the car. And I totally respect that you probably need some decompression time, right? Like having those conversations and becoming an advocate and ally to your child.
and their needs because we’re all different. yeah, being able to create that safety and that choice for your child then establishes a deeper connection where they do actually come to you, right? And they say, hey, there’s this thing. wow. Yeah, so just thinking about what are the things that we’re kind of sticklers for or the patterns that we notice that we do because we do them and there’s not really intention.
Robert Trout (26:49.572)
Yes.
Mary (27:04.605)
that might help to have a conversation over at some point and give your child choice over, you know, at some point.
Robert Trout (27:12.452)
Yep. The number one prevention strategy is the element of co-regulation that you’re talking about there. It just is. If you as the parent show up in a unregulated state, I mean, I don’t like to use the word guarantee, but it’s pretty likely that this is about to turn into a meltdown. And let me be clear.
for one or both of you. Like we talked about in the beginning of this episode, this is a human condition, not just a your kid condition. So just pay attention to the reality of co-regulation, which we have another episode recorded about if you want to look that up. And the whole idea of that is you recognizing that you’re playing such an integral role.
in your kid’s ability to process and move through emotions and energy that they’ve developed through their day and taking care of them and yourself. So I think that’s a great segue into the second part of this conversation, which is handling meltdowns as they start.
And again, this is a general conversation. If you want to get specific, then we need to know more about you and your kid and their personalities and strategy and things that are not working to kind of get more specific. But when a kid, tween, teen, young adult, doesn’t matter their age, it really doesn’t. When it starts to go down, when you start to see the pattern move from manageable to not manageable,
Now we’re moving into some general concepts to pay attention to as the parent. okay, like Mary said earlier in this conversation, the next two hours is not up to you. There are strategies that we teach parents to try to intervene. It is possible sometimes to pull someone out of a neurological loop or pattern that they’re entering into. It absolutely is. But today, what we’re talking about are just the general ideas of it.
Robert Trout (29:24.482)
I’m going to start with the simple one that I’ve already talked about with the co-regulation. Step one in a meltdown is you as the parent step back, calm down because this kid is going, going to regulate off of your state of being. So if you follow them down the rabbit hole because they’re angry or frustrated or whatever, and then you get frustrated because you’ve got to get somewhere,
It’s over. I mean, let’s just be absolutely clear. It’s over. Because you’re following each other into a state of being that’s not going to be productive at all. So step one is always going to be step back and calm down. Okay. From there, we get into strategies that, you know, start to become a little specific to the scenario of where you are.
what the meltdown looks like. remember, meltdowns are on a spectrum. So are they punching walls or are they putting their headphones on and putting their hoodie up and sliding into the back seat of the car? Like, okay, where are we at in this and how do we move into it? So let me give a couple of generals and then Mary, I’ll pass it to you. But general things during meltdowns, step one, remove the audience.
after step one after you’ve taken care of yourself right step one is you take care of yourself you stay calm and you’re ready to proceed into a practice now we’re moving get the audience away because very often meltdowns occur because they want to gain the attention because it gives an advantage a social advantage of making you feel like a bad parent because you’ve upset your child and it’s biological
I hate to tell you, some parents are like, I don’t care. Yeah, you do. Somewhere in there, you do. Your brain is looking at all the eyes that are looking at you. So you have to create space is usually step one from whatever scenario you’re in. So change rooms, change directions, change, et cetera, whatever it might be. But if there’s an audience, you need to remove that audience.
Robert Trout (31:40.224)
Then we get into the process of allowing them to open up and in. You need somewhere to step into the conversation. So if they’re screaming and screaming and screaming and you step back and you stay calm, just wait. It’s coming. There’s going to be that breath, that moment that’s going to open. So remove the audience. Wait for the opportunity. Because if you try to force your way in, they will fight harder. The brain.
will fight harder. They will shut down more. They will scream louder. Whatever end of the spectrum we’re looking at, it doesn’t matter. They dig in when people try to force into the meltdown. It just happens. So I’m going to pause there, Mary. Where are you at in that conversation?
Mary (32:28.674)
Yeah, there’s something to be said about removing the audience. And I’m gonna play devil’s advocate because parents are like, Anne, we’re in an airport and short of dragging her to the bathroom, right? And then someone calling child services on me for drag. Part of it is just.
Robert Trout (32:39.449)
Yeah.
Mary (32:50.565)
acknowledging that sometimes you can’t remove the audience and sometimes you will look like the bad guy and you are practicing something to be different, right? And you are changing a pattern and to remind yourself like sometimes there will be meltdowns in public and we cannot remove the audience. If it’s available to us, absolutely. If you can redirect, right? Like let’s go grab something to drink or hey, why don’t we go get
Robert Trout (32:56.74)
Mm-hmm.
Mary (33:18.703)
a cookie or whatever it is to redirect, sure. But there are a lot of times parents say like, it’s not available to me. And so in that moment, as you’re stepping back and saying, do I have the capacity to try something different, that gentle reminder of like, I am doing something different, children meltdown in public, I’m gonna stick with this and knowing that you can’t necessarily, always.
do everything in a vacuum, right? But you know, the biggest thing that stands out to me about the taking the step back and pausing and looking at your bandwidth is just, it goes back to survival, right? It’s like everyone’s brain automatically goes into survival mode in that moment. And if you can hijack your brain and say,
Robert Trout (33:51.233)
Absolutely.
Mary (34:15.529)
here are the three things that I know I can do in this moment and do one thing different, right? Again, it’s one thing different. I saw something, I read something the other day that said, you know, a lot of people look at kids who are throwing tantrums and they go, they’re just doing it for attention. Yeah, they are. They need something from us. Give that child attention, right? But where I tend to have parents differentiate,
Robert Trout (34:37.722)
They’re communicating.
Mary (34:44.903)
the appropriateness of giving attention in those moments is, hey, I think you’re feeling big feelings right now or something’s going on for you that’s really big, but the way that you’re communicating it is actually hurting me, right? Whether they’re kicking and screaming or calling you names or whatever, right? Do you think that we can talk about your big feelings or do something to shake out the big feelings?
so that we’re not hurting each other while we’re trying to help each other, right? It’s not whether you’re giving the child bad behavior, attention or not. It’s how are you creating the dialogue about it or the understanding about it, right?
Robert Trout (35:28.3)
Yep. And a lot of the language you just used sounds very young. And a reminder to the listener, sometimes we have 16 to 18 year olds that developmentally are 12. Like you can use the language appropriate to the development of the person. And that includes all the way to the young adults who are punching the walls because they’re so angry. And that’s the moment that you have to realize some of the strategies of working through this is to, well, okay, let’s back up.
First and foremost, this moment with the explosion or whatever the scenario is, is not the moment for the mom speech. This is not going to be the deep learning moment for both of you to connect and get through. That comes later. That’s processing afterwards during this. So the truth is, is when you’re working through this,
and you’ve stepped back and you’ve assessed and you’re giving space and all those steps, there’s also that reality check of avoiding, like, trying to punish them in the moment for the actions and behaviors and things like that’s just fuel to the fire because things are getting worse for them in the moment of this great emotional exchange and that’s just going to fuel whatever is going on internally for them.
So we’re avoiding that punishment and language and yelling and whatever it might be. And honestly, so much about the interactions comes down to your body language and position, which is why the strategy of like sometimes removing the audience is you walking away, right? And getting into that place of like, okay, see, you know, the kid punches the wall and the parent is like, okay, turn and walk away and say, I see you’re angry. We can talk when you’re ready. That’s it. That’s the entire.
conversation for that scenario because as long as it’s being fueled, it’s just going to go through this enormous emotional outburst and process. So, so many strategies are inside of these topics we’re talking about. And again, this is so specific to you and your kid. So, these are general ideas for parents to consider and develop strategies of like, I should try that.
Robert Trout (37:50.22)
or that makes sense to me, et cetera. But the idea is to use minimal verbal language during the actual process of the meltdown, whatever that looks like. Words very often just get in the way of the actual outcome you’re looking for. And I’m going to say this very often, it’s because you have something to say.
As the parent, you have something so powerful that you want them to understand about how you feel about what they’re doing right now. Again, take a breath. This is not the moment for your emotional process. You are literally stepping into the role of spaceholder and reflector and understanding what’s going on for them so that you can remain safe.
later, especially if you can remain calm when you’re processing the event, is usually an appropriate time to slip in parts about what happened for you and how you felt during that because they’re calm enough that they can take that in. And it matters to them because, know, at the base level, they have that parental-child relationship they’re trying to maintain or love for you or whatever you want to say about that, where it’s like, okay, how do we get this?
Robert Trout (39:16.058)
Plots on that, Mary? Did I miss something?
Mary (39:20.105)
I mean, yeah, again, my brain’s going in all different directions, right? Because it’s so applicable to just very basic neurology, right? When they are not in a regulated state, they’re not integrating anything you’re saying anyway. And I will say, as a kid who tended to be more on the emotional and like, don’t tell me what to do side of things, right? I remember when my parents were like, you’re punished. I’m like, I’m already punished?
let’s ride, right? Like, I’m gonna have to go all the way to nine and a half, you know?
Robert Trout (39:50.596)
We all have that memory.
Mary (39:57.169)
Right, right, My poor parents. But yeah, just this idea of like, if you see that moment as your child saying, please understand me, please just understand me, right? Because that’s all it is. That’s all communication is. And that’s all behavioral communication is, right? Please understand me. I need to know that you get how big and hard this is for me right now. Right? And to your point.
Robert Trout (40:09.763)
Yeah.
Mary (40:26.729)
most parents, my biggest invite to them is say less, say less, stop talking, right? And if you can just, yeah, wait for that moment or remove yourself for your safety and say, I’m ready to talk when you are, right? Because what we’re doing is we’re giving language to that behavioral communication.
Robert Trout (40:34.308)
Yes. Yep.
Mary (40:56.723)
which kids still have such a hard time doing, right?
Robert Trout (41:00.686)
Yes. And I feel like we need to be clear on one aspect of this. The important factor to the meltdown for development and behavioral change, which is where we come in with the families we’re supporting, is the parent being like, well, what should I do? Well, these are all the things that you do. What you don’t do is give them what they wanted to stop the meltdown.
That, mean, the nightmare of that is just the beginning. Because what we’re looking for is not for them to calm down because they’ve won. And it really is that. It’s that like, well, I got the cookie I wanted, right? And it’s like, no, no, no, no, no. All these strategies are working through the emotional process. Understanding that the consistency of your answer that set this off
is what you’re holding to the entire time. They don’t go through the emotional thing and then say, but can I have a cookie now? yeah, okay, here’s your cookie. Like you’ve just destroyed any education or learning or emotional development because what they really learned is that if they do this, they get what they wanted in the first place. And I want to be clear. This is not little kids, the tweens, teens, young adults. This kid’s 25 years old.
which we work with those families. Same thing. Your consistency to the answer and the structure of what was like your decision or the structure of what they can and cannot have, the reward sensors that set this off, can’t change. This isn’t about giving them what they wanted. This is about allowing space for the emotion and the process of the emotion, leading to the outcome where
You held your boundary in your decision. They had their emotional experience. And then when it was all over, you were able to reconnect and debrief what just happened and ask those questions like, hey, I saw you just had this massive emotional experience. And I know that’s really hard for you. So what can we do next time to not have it go that far?
Robert Trout (43:24.056)
what can that look like for you and build like an actual plan that you’ll follow through on the next time. Because you’re gonna need to say no to something the next time. And so much of this is relevant to understanding that those two things are separate. Preventing and processing through an emotional experience is its own category, not the reward center of reinforcing behavior, good or bad.
That’s something completely separate. So you have to hold your line and your answer and your boundary in this as the parent so that you maintain your structure within the family hierarchy for them to understand that your answer was the answer, not your answer was able to be manipulated to become the answer they wanted. That’s a long-term disaster waiting to happen in that moment.
I think that’s my final words, honestly, on this. Mary, what would be your closing remarks and what we need the families to know?
Mary (44:29.383)
Yeah, so seeing these as an opportunity to understand your child better and to teach them that a regulated conversation, a safe conversation can help them to explore what their reality is in that moment, what their perception is in that moment, right? And how to tolerate discomfort, how to tolerate the inability
to control everything in their lives, right? And to acknowledge like sometimes we all, you know, there’s 30 people in a room and we all have different emotions regarding one event that happened and that’s okay. But your child’s reality is, you know, big and they need to know that you’re in it with them. And so part of this is really fine tuning that process of stepping back, stepping in.
when it really matters the most.
Robert Trout (45:28.79)
Absolutely. All right. Well, we hope this episode has been helpful and brought up some ideas and things to understand and think about and maybe create a new strategy for you as a parent as you’re working through this. And hopefully you don’t feel alone because we’re very serious. This is not little kids. This is every age of kid that’s going through what could be defined as some form of meltdown.
So if you have any questions or podcast suggestions or would like to learn and become educated with us and do coaching in that process, you can find us at parenttrainers.com and join our master classes and community, ask your questions and get support and we’ll hopefully see you there.
