Robert Trout (00:01.464)
Hello and welcome to the parenting problems today podcast I’m your host today Robert trout joined with Mary’s on breaker from the parent trainers online community and support Now we are coming to you today with a very big topic that we’re gonna try to keep short and concise Because we’re you know inundated sometimes by parents that are dealing with what they consider problems and
The topic we’re looking at today is basically appropriate privacy. And we work a lot with tweens, teens, young adults, families that are working through those categories of mental health, behavioral health, and just life challenges, honestly, across the board. Now, appropriate privacy is a delicate subject, so we want to honor that because every single family is different with this because we have some parents that are really
stepping into that role of helicopter mom or helicopter dad and and they’re just there and they’re very protective or overprotective or stepping into their own kind of trauma sequences or just protective sequences like natural instincts absolutely natural and kids are going to grow evolve and change and in for a lot of reasons we see parents struggle with this nowadays because
kids grow up usually a lot slower than we used to. It’s just an effect of our culture, the online, social media, phone access, internet, all of these things that I think some people forget. Like we didn’t have in abundance until only like 30 years ago. So we’re seeing a lot of patterns opening up where kids are
in some ways expected, but also kind of held in this place of staying young for a long time and growing up a lot slower than the generations that came before. So saying all of that and recognizing that this is a wide, like sometimes big red button topic, let’s kind of just look at the outlines for Families Married Today around privacy for their tweens, teens, and young adults and just kind of see where that
Robert Trout (02:23.95)
So let me pass it to you, Mary, first to say, let’s look at friends. Okay, so tweens, teens, kind of that area for that category. Friends are one of those things that parents really worry about sometimes. Like, who are you hanging out with? Are you boyfriend, girlfriend? Are you, like, where is this going? So let’s just step into that. What are the first thoughts that come up around relationships that kids are developing?
and the privacy issues that come up with
Mary (02:55.059)
Yeah, I think the biggest thing that comes up for me is, know, what kind of family are these, you know, is this kid from? What are what kind of interests does this child have? Right. Like parents often really worry about that peer pressure effect when it comes to knowing who their child is hanging out with. And so there seems to be this way that parents will either
try to collect information on a child or a family, right? Or, you know, I have parents who say, you know, we’re gonna start looking at their texts. We’re gonna start making sure that everything’s appropriate. And yeah, there’s a lot of nuance, I think, that goes into how do we approach this, right? I can remember as a teen, my parents saying, you know, the age old, you can’t go hang out at this person’s house until I talk to their parents.
kind of thing. You know, I have a lot of parents who still stick to that kind of rule. And I find that understanding and knowing who your child is, is around is not a bad thing. Right. Now, when we get into the these moments where parents start saying, you know, we’re gonna just look at their texts and not tell them, right. It’s a bigger topic of, wait, how are we actually framing this to our children around
You know, I want to give you privacy with your friends. And at this moment in time, like, you know, we are making exceptions or things are happening, you know, at a pace in which we feel we would like to have some oversight of. Right. And being more I always encourage like more honesty in those ways, whenever parents are thinking about like, how do we keep an eye on this? Because
I’m nervous about what’s going on within that circle of friends.
Robert Trout (04:55.778)
Yeah, and so much comes up in this for the parent where I agree like a lot of families try to hold to that I need to meet their parents and have a connection and especially at the tween age that seems easier for a lot of families. It’s when they get to the teenagers where the sometimes your teenager is hiding who they’re hanging out with because they formed an opinion about you and your reaction to their friend and their families, etc. So
For me, this conversation always goes back to like, all right, parents, when your kids are nine, 10, 11, you know, through that age range, this is the point to really establish a practice of interviewing your kids about their friends. Yes, go meet their parents, hang out, go invite them to your house for dinner or whatever it might be. Absolutely.
But more importantly, develop a method, a practice of interviewing your kids to learn about their life and their friends, but not in this weird, you know, I’ve got to know everything way. We’re really focused on kind of the basics here. It’s like, okay, so hey, this is your new friend, right? Let’s call him Johnny. Friend Johnny, you just met them. You’d like to go have a play date at their house. Great. You know, they go.
They have the play date. Now the kid, your kid comes home. Here are some of the basics that I always try to outline for families. Hey, what’s it like at Johnny’s house? How are they different than us? And this, remember you’re gaining this information from your kid and it’s your job to stay curious and non-reactive because this is where it’s like, well, it’s really interesting. They have all these like statues and books and
crystals and things and you’re like, that’s really interesting. Do you know why? And it’s like, well, they’re different religion than us. If you react to that statement, you’re not setting the stage for your kid to feel open to sharing with you what they’re seeing in the world. This isn’t just even about Johnny’s house. This is just about them.
Robert Trout (07:15.334)
sharing with you their observations and what they’ve heard and kind of their thoughts on what was different and the same. And in this conversation, it’s so important to remember that your role is to let them feel comfortable sharing with you. Then you get into deeper things, especially as they start getting a little bit older where it’s like, well, what do you think about their religion or what they believe or did they talk to you about it at all or what?
questions do you have for me about what you saw over there? That’s the gold. That is the gold question. What questions do you have for me? You’ve just opened the door for your kid to use you as a resource within relationship to have a safe conversation about how others are different than who you know, how we live or what we believe or you know where we go on vacation or whatever we do. It’s such an important
door to keep open and develop in this interview style. And I can’t stress it enough the importance of that type of skill.
Mary (08:24.349)
Absolutely. Yeah, it’s important to recognize that like at different age levels, right? You’re going to be getting different types of responses. And the sooner you start, the more I think consistency you can build with kind of what you hope to get from that and expect to get from those conversations. And the more you can stay open. Yeah, just open to what you’re hearing and non-reactive.
Robert Trout (08:36.973)
So.
Mary (08:53.365)
I think that the better chance you have of maintaining, right, that sort of relationship with your child and that conversation.
Robert Trout (09:03.288)
Yep, absolutely. Well, you already touched on the next phase of privacy, which is the one that parents lose their minds as we kind of go through trainings and help them develop skills and the ability to really step in with their kids. And this is the phone. You know, the phone is the thing. my God. What a like family implosion explosion device.
I mean, the impact of a phone and privacy together is a ticking time bomb. So let me, I’ll pass it off since you already brought it up about like looking at their text messages without them knowing what are some of the things that we need to make sure parents understand about setting up kind of that.
Mary (09:51.133)
Yeah, I mean, it’s the age old, you I looked at my boyfriend’s phone when he was in the bathroom and I saw something and now I either have to admit that I was dishonest and looked at his phone, right? Or, you know, it’s this idea of how are you setting up trust in your family? And how are you setting up the idea that I’m not here to lord over you and to tell you what you can and can’t discuss, right, with your friends?
your same age peers, but I am here to ensure your safety, to ensure that something that maybe you as a teenager might just think is normal, you know, is not that I can have a conversation with you about that you can’t do and that you really erode trust if you’re just snooping.
Right. And I always say, if you can start out with this idea that, hey, I am going to be, we are going to have access to, know, whatever comes up on your phone. We are going to have access to see what apps you’re using. You know, we are that you have this opportunity to have a conversation with your child about, we just want to make sure that you’re safe. And the more that
You step up and we see you using your phone appropriately the more we step back eventually, right? And this is especially for the impulsive kid or the kid who really can’t hold their tongue and just has to say the thing, right? I was that kid. Thank goodness I didn’t have cell phones whenever I was younger. Just being able to use it as a way to show like,
we care and we are gonna be a part of your life and a way to have conversations around, hey, I noticed this thing that so-and-so said to you the other day and I like wanted to check in with you. How are you?
Mary (12:05.523)
Right? Yeah. Being able to have a great conversation around, yeah, just things that come up in children’s lives that we’re not always a part of.
Robert Trout (12:05.614)
Absolutely.
Robert Trout (12:14.51)
Yep. All right, so I’m going to jump on my bandwagon because you just touched on it. When it comes to the electronics, parents, whatever phase you’re at, but I always try to talk to you before you give your kid their first phone. And that’s different for every family. They make a decision about the age it’s appropriate for their kid to have a device. No matter what age that is, front load, front load.
front load. The restrictions, expectations, and the consequences of misuse of this powerful device. That’s it. Just the number one thing that’s going to save you years of conflict. Years of conflict.
is setting the standard in the very beginning about what is appropriate and not appropriate and the guidelines around it. And here are some basic standard things to consider from our side, right? From the therapeutic, like neurological developmental side of your kid. And I don’t really care what’s going on for them. It doesn’t matter. You hand any kid, you hand an 11 year old an iPhone, you have just expanded their world exponentially.
across the board for interaction and consequence. Both. Both sides of this are expanded at a rate that their brain was never ready for. So for you to say here, just be good, you’ve set yourself up for disaster. Not them. Like they’re going to struggle, but you have set yourself up. that’s my bandwagon is take ownership for the fact that this is on you.
on you as a parent when you hand someone a device that’s so powerful neurologically that they’re not capable, they’re really not, of setting the boundaries and expectations on their own. This is on you as the parent. So stepping off of that into the conversation about it, there are some basic things that you need to consider. And I’m a huge fan of the ownership conversation. I love it. It works very effectively for most kids.
Robert Trout (14:41.506)
where you as the parent say, okay, we’ve decided to give you this device, but I need you to hear this. We are giving it to you to use. You do not own it. It is not yours. I own it, which means I get access to it and everything on it at all times so that you understand that it is a tool for you to live your life and grow and research and stay connected, et cetera, but it’s mine.
which means that I have access to everything that happens on it. I can see it any time, et cetera. And here’s my second, like stepping into this for every parent listening, use the apps that exist. Please use the apps from minute one that allow you access to that phone for what matters to you. So tracking, seeing text messages, seeing what apps are downloaded.
to it. Like there are apps for apps now for parents to be able to really have a sense of viewing and staying vigilant to what is happening. And this really helps you in the short term to long term because it sets up that standard of saying if you download something to your phone, I need you to hear that it’s not yours, it’s mine.
You have put something on my phone and I have access to it. So there are a lot of different ways to do that. And that’s not the purpose of today’s podcast, but I just want to throw out some pieces to this for parents to consider because, you know, they unwrap an iPhone on Christmas morning. There’s a false expectation to that 11 year old, 13 year old, 16 year old. I don’t care.
There’s a false expectation that it was a gift to them and they own it. And I never recommend that for any family to set that up because it sets up false, unrealistic expectations for that kid saying like, well, it’s mine. I can do whatever I want with it. Mary thoughts?
Mary (16:53.129)
Yeah, I’ve seen a lot of parents in the conundrum of kids saying, well, this was a gift or I bought this with my Hanukkah money or whatever it is. So I own it. Right. And it’s just an important conversation to have around, you know, what the consequences are of misuse or, you know, whether that’s bullying or staying on it.
you know, too late or refusing it to turn it in at a certain time, those sorts of things, right? Yeah, and then I think it just brings to mind, yeah, this idea that for so many kids, right, because there’s just an infinite amount of information and interaction at their fingertips, that parents really are kind of the fence builders and the gatekeepers.
of what comes in and what goes out. And the more that you have the expectation and the consequence set up around it, and the consequence is not always to rip the phone out of your child’s hand and take it for a week, right? Let’s be clear, but what is the practical lesson that we can teach from the standpoint of
proper use of social media and how we treat others behind a screen versus in person. It can be a really great tool if you set it up to be great tool.
Robert Trout (18:34.03)
Well, I want to get off, I mean, this topic just takes people down a rabbit hole. So let’s step off of the phone and the computer, whatever the device is, and step back and kind of finish this conversation around privacy and kind of the appropriate levels of privacy as kids kind of go through this. And we’re going to use both the friends and the phones to kind of finish this conversation. But.
What I’d like to step into for people that just heard us on these kind of topics that we’re very passionate about is when the device is given, for example, or the friendship is established, level one of privacy is letting your kid explore to the limits that you have set within the structure. So it’s setting it up of like, hey, yeah, go find new friends, get to know how they’re different and the same.
And on your device, you have this app that you can try or this game that you can play on the computer or Xbox or whatever. Like we’re really talking about devices in general there. And then we’re making sure to have the conversations about how to stay safe on the internet, on the apps, on social media. So they understand that there are negative consequences outside of even what you as the parent could do to them as a consequence.
It’s what the world might come through and do to them. The people that they might meet that aren’t good people or have the best intentions for them, or they’re going to use them or abuse them or bully them or whatever it might be. And those conversations are super important for privacy because there’s an element of your kid not being caught off guard by those things because it allows them to have some sense of danger.
that allow them to grow a healthy sense of, I’m gonna keep, you know, as the kid, my information private from all these people that I don’t actually really know. Such an important lesson on that front, all the way to the, you know, I’m allowed to do to this point. And if I cross that line, I know that my parent is going to step in.
Robert Trout (20:47.306)
and explore everything I’ve done to find out where I’ve gone on the internet or the people I’m talking to or whatever it might be because that my parent has told me that that’s the consequence. Again, it’s not rip the phone out of their hand for a week. It’s the consequence sometimes is as simple as I’m going to come in and check everything out and see what you’ve done and where you’ve gone. And then we’re going to have conversations and, and boundaries set and, and et cetera. When we figure out where you’re pushing against.
what is appropriate for us as a family or with you with the device.
Robert Trout (21:25.304)
Thoughts?
Mary (21:26.803)
Yeah, a lot of thoughts come up for me. But I think the biggest one is, you know, in thinking about this sort of thing and in thinking about privacy in general through your child’s kind of lifespan, right? Like there are going to be different moments where your child asks for more privacy and it is appropriate. And just thinking towards how do we set this up? What does trust building look like?
How are we having conversations around these things, right? If my child’s not coming to me with everything and there is more privacy there, am I setting them up with a therapist or a mentor or someone else they can go to, right? All of these kind of steps throughout your child’s life are going to need to be managed a little bit by you, but
thinking of it as an opportunity for trust building and communication and connection in different ways. And teaching them how to take responsibility for the privacy they want.
Robert Trout (22:37.87)
Absolutely Yeah, so much of this conversation is a reminder to any parent that you set the boundaries You set the pace you set the consequences you set the expectations for What it looks like for privacy from you? Meaning that you’re gonna let them have this much room to explore Until they have a question or they have something that comes up that they don’t understand
Or they cross a line and you’re going to catch them, right? Like that’s what always happens is we catch them. So set it up in a way that makes sense to everybody involved. And that’s really what this conversation about privacy is really about is don’t sneak around. Because if you sneak around, your kids learn to sneak around. And trust me, they are far better at getting around firewalls.
and app structures and all these things than you’re ever going to be, you know, as a joke, but also in most of the time is serious. It’s like, they just get this new world. They get how all this works and they figure out the workarounds if they have to figure out the workarounds. The kids that kind of know like, well, this isn’t my phone is my, you know, my parents’ phone and I get to use it. Those kids very often aren’t as eager to break and push those lines.
So privacy is just about setting all those standards, but also recognizing that you’re going to cross a line if you do it in a way that breaks trust with your kid. And that’s not what you’re trying to teach them, that you’re going to like hover over them, take from them, witness them, look for them to make a mistake. All of that will just lead to more conflict within the family system.
Alright, well thank you for listening. We hope it’s been an inspiring conversation and makes you think about, okay, how did I set up or how will I set up this process as my kid gets older and they need some privacy from me to have room to make mistakes, learn and grow. Come find us at parenttrainers.com and ask your questions, join the community, participate in a training from us and we look forward to seeing you all there.
