Robert Trout (00:01.368)
Hello and welcome to Parent Problems Today podcast where we explore different topics related to teens tweens and young adults who are going through a transition process of mentor behavior health challenges or just family dynamics or just overall conflict within family systems. Today’s topic is actually a little bit outside of that because it comes up with a lot of parents that are trying to quote unquote control.
their teenager or get a grasp on what’s going on for their loved one that’s struggling. And we have to, every now and then, throw a subject out called rite of passage. And when this subject comes up, it very often throws a family off guard. It’s like, well, what does that even mean? Because this is a very old concept. It’s been involved in every evolution of human process and development and
cultural development, religious development, like you name it, it’s been integrated into every single part of being human for centuries, basically since the beginning as far as many would argue. And Right of Passage is a breakdown that we’re gonna look at today, and this is myself, Robert Trout, and Paul Arredondo from the Parent Trainers Team. And we both have a history in this and in different ways of looking at setting up processes to help
kids, but in reality help any human transition a mindset, a belief system, or just overall stepping out of what used to be into something new and just opening opportunity for change and growth and development within a person or a family or group. It’s so powerful as far as tools are concerned. So today we’re going to kind of look at this concept.
So Paul, I’ll just drop it right to you and just talk about like when people say rite of passage and you have to translate that for the modern human or modern family, because they’ve never heard of this in their life, what do you say to them? What’s your definition of this?
Paul (02:11.222)
Sure.
Well, you already use the word that I key in on, which is transitions. know, oftentimes, you know, we go through transitions and I mean, some of the more kind of modern and I’m using air quotes when I say modern transitions are like graduating from eighth grade, graduating from high school, getting your driver’s license, turning 21, turning 18. You know, like we think of those as milestones, right? Hitting puberty.
those sort of things. But historically, when, as you said, it’s been going on for millennia through different cultures all over the planet, there has been this recognition that there’s a transition out of adolescence, out of teenager into adulthood. And sometimes culturally, it’s a thrusting into adulthood. And this transition often can also be referred to as a threshold moment. You’re crossing through a threshold, much like going through
doorway. You’re no longer in the old room. You’re going, you’re into a new environment. You’re into a new way of being. You’re into a new part of yourself, like an ownership of let’s say responsibility, accountability, adulting, right? And if we were to go back to nomadic peoples or tribal peoples,
or peoples who were just living in community, villages. The shift from childhood to adulthood is really about taking on identity, role.
Paul (03:45.114)
and how that shows up in community and the responsibility of that and the accountability that comes alongside that. And so when we’re talking about these transitions or these rites of passage, really it’s about calling somebody to the table of life, calling somebody and saying, hey, now it’s your opportunity. This is what the next stage looks like. This is what it means to evolve.
to create an opportunity for yourself to take this next step. And oftentimes, and going back to the term rite of passage, those are in history facilitated. And I think that’s where a lot of the confusion lies when we bring these up to families is the facilitation process has been lost in a lot of cultures, is we just don’t know how to do it. And again, the kind of
things that I referred to earlier of like getting a driver’s license, turning 18, having your first drink of alcohol, like these things of creating opportunities for transition into again, growth or identity or claiming of a process.
unfortunately this generation, they’re kind of just like on their own. Right? And you know how they’re led is oftentimes by peers who maybe aren’t mature.
Robert Trout (05:09.369)
Yes. Yep.
Paul (05:17.502)
or maybe often by the things that they’re stumbling upon through social media or through the culture that is presented to them. And so when we talk of rites of passage, what we’re really talking about are healthy transitions, ways to support families, to support teens, adolescents, teens, young adults into creating a transition for themselves through a structured process. And now this could be a tiny little moment or it could be a big process. So rites of passage,
in the way that we’re gonna be bringing forward in this conversation can take many, many forms. So I’ll just pause there and throw it back to you.
Robert Trout (05:55.013)
Yes. Yeah, and as far as the forms, what I want every parent that’s listening to this to understand is that this is a concept we bring up, not because it’s this great idea to throw them a party and acknowledge that they did something. That’s not what write a passage is. I said earlier, write a passage is an extremely powerful tool. And it is an extremely powerful tool to the point that I need every parent to hear this. If you don’t do it,
someone else will, or they’ll transition themselves. And this is where we see new behaviors and lifestyle choices and patterns develop for a lot of kids, especially during that tween and teen era, where, like you said, they’re raising themselves, or their phone’s raising them these days, or their peers are interjecting. And I had to give this example, and so I’ll use it now.
Paul (06:28.075)
Right.
Robert Trout (06:49.484)
where a parent was talking about how they felt like they were losing all control of their teenage daughter. And I said, well, where are you losing this control? And they said, well, the only people she cares at all about are these two friends at school. And I had them like, well, tell me what are they doing? It’s like, well, those two friends, you know, they brought her over and they gave her her first pot and her first alcohol. And they gave her like this and this and like, they’re just
bad influences and I had to stop them and be like, this is what a great example. These two kids are indoctrinating. They’re bringing in, like they use that language. They brought her in. They brought her from a young child into an environment where they said, we trust you and we’re gonna make you one of us.
That’s a rite of passage. And this isn’t a small deal. This is a big deal neurologically, emotionally. Like this person was accepted by someone else into a secret society of now their friends. And they’ve never had that with you as a parent. You never brought them in with purpose or to give them meaning or a job or a role within the family system.
They’re getting these things that we are designed to look for from someone else. And I’m going to take it one step higher than that, just on a level for any parent listening. What we’re talking about there is also the neuroscience behind gang mentality. Everyone says, why did these kids join these gangs and shoot each other and die and sell drugs and do all this stuff? It’s neuroscience. It’s because gangs figured this out.
millennia ago. Gangs are not a new thing. They’re not. These are tribal units forming around a shared experience and they figured out a long time ago how to find, usually the kids, who are most susceptible to need that community, family, feeling, purpose, driven, like, like this is a biological driven process that you can’t stop.
Robert Trout (09:11.308)
So just taking that and backing back up to this conversation, here it is parents, you do it or somebody else will. It’s just how it works. Okay, so write a passage or something to understand that’s both a neurological process that is necessary and is going to happen. And it’s something that if you understand you can use it to strengthen your family system.
to strengthen the bonds you have with this used to be child, and you take them across the thresholds, one at a time, where they’re not a child anymore. Now they’re a young person, then they’re a young adult, then they’re an adult, and you have a healthy bonded relationship, adult to adult, at the end of this process, but you had to take them through ceremony, through process as a family, and through recognition.
of the thresholds that were crossed. Because it’s one of those unique things that rites of passage develops around an understanding that this person doesn’t see themselves changing or growing. We can’t very often, including adults, I need everyone to hear that. We all have a really hard time seeing ourselves changing. But one of the ways that we can recognize that we are different is by the recognition of others saying,
You are no longer this and we honor you. It was probably the most powerful. I’ll pass that back to you in a second. But the honor of recognizing that we’re not gonna treat you like a little child anymore. It’s time for you to be different because each threshold that’s crossed comes with a new set of responsibilities and privileges. That is the threshold of giving them the space to learn.
Paul (10:46.869)
Hehehe
Robert Trout (11:00.568)
try on new things, fail, succeed, go through, but at a new threshold of understanding of both the consequences and the privileges of being in this new phase of life. And I’m take that, when I throw out honor, Paul, like what comes up for you in that when we start working with families around this rites of passage?
Paul (11:25.556)
Right, and so when I think about this idea of creating a transition or crossing a threshold, it is really such a grand invitation. And so that honoring is the understanding of like, wow, my child’s maturing. Let’s honor the fact that my child’s going through this developmental stage.
That needs to be acknowledged because we work with a lot of families who have like teens and young adults who are still children in a lot of ways because they’ve never been invited into responsibility. They’ve never been invited into adulthood. Or it’s been inappropriately done, Like peers getting them drunk, right? Or those unfortunate styles of threshold moments or initiation.
And so when we’re talking about healthy rites of passage, know, one of the things that you said that really I think is something that gets lost is people need to get witnessed. People need to be held. People need to be seen and validated for who they are and what they’re doing and how they’re showing up differently. You know, and so one of the first things that I talked to any family member about is like,
Hey, what are the transitions that you’ve seen your child do? What is your child doing now that they weren’t doing two months ago, two years ago for themselves? Let’s just hold that in perspective. Let’s just hold that for a second. What is your child doing now that they weren’t doing for themselves before? And in light of that, what could you be asking more of?
and creating the space for that conversation. Because that’s what it is to honor them, is to sit them down and say, hey, you’re at a stage where you’re capable of more. And I believe in you. I believe in you. And I want to invite you into this. Because this is actually what it means for you to be autonomous, to get the independence that you crave, to ultimately launch yourself into adulthood.
Paul (13:31.254)
Right, because there’s that threshold moment of like 12, 13 puberty and, know, oftentimes we think of it as like the bird trying to fly the nest.
And ultimately in Western culture, we continue to be, you know, the caregivers who grab them by the leg as they’re trying to fly away and yank them back into the nest. And unfortunately, that’s what causes a lot of conflict is they’re craving independence, they’re craving autonomy, they’re actually craving responsibility and accountability. And so then that’s the rub.
That’s the tension. And so being able to honor it and name it and put it out front and have a clear conversation of like, yeah, this is that moment for you, dude. This is that moment for you, girl. Like, this is where we’re at and this is what it means to actually step into it in a good way.
Step into it together. Step into it with some intention, some awareness, and let’s talk about it. Right? I mean, there’s things like kinsenyetas, bar mitzvahs, like there are ceremonies that still happen that actually acknowledge these transitions. Right? And, you know, again, it’s this idea of how do we draw attention to it in a healthy way? How to create space for these young people to be honored.
Robert Trout (14:39.821)
Yes.
Robert Trout (14:51.426)
Yes. Yeah. And let’s use that. What you just said is kind of the jumping off point in this conversation because I feel like we’ve outlined the importance of rites of passage as a concept and a tool. Let’s talk about some of the things people use for this and some of the ways that you can set this up very easily. And you were just saying like, quinceanas, birthday parties, like all these different things.
that are cultural, those are absolutely appropriate. And for those cultures, like I said earlier, it’s been integrated for hundreds, thousands of years that these kind of processes happen. And I mean, let’s give some basic, like even just outlines. So for me, the ones that have come up most recently with families are looking at things such as summer camp. And I know that that is one of those things that people go, wait a minute, why, what?
Paul (15:27.658)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (15:46.306)
Well, for a kid to reach an age where they’re trusted to go away from you for a week, that’s a rite of passage. And if you set it up as a celebratory, you’ve earned this and we feel like you’re ready to show us that you can handle this responsibility, it becomes a rite of passage to be able to do that. Then at a lot of summer camps, there’s little rites that happen where they earn badges and responsibility and like,
tribal presence within that, you whatever language you want to use for it. These kids neurologically really dive into those different elements. And that can be day camp, go away camp, it doesn’t matter. But any kind of camp where it’s like we’re trusting that you’ve reached the point that you can handle this. And now it’s a rite of passage where you celebrate when they come back successfully. And that’s where it’s a little party and things like that. Smaller examples for me, I’ll give one or two and then pass it to you, Paul, to see what you’ve got with this.
I have families that, you know, they have a very large tradition of certain things within their family systems, such as the passing of an item that’s been passed generationally down. And that can be anything from a necklace or jewelry to a gun that was, you know, a part of the family lore or bow and arrow or what, mean, there’s so many things, right? But a significance of passing from me to you.
And showing that like now this is your job to protect this to know the stories, you know, whatever it might be Yeah, I mean all of these things what do you got that comes up with family sets more of a modern like twist on like well recognize that this is what you’re doing even if you don’t know it’s what
Paul (17:29.65)
Yeah, right. I mean, the modern twist, especially from urban cultures, is getting a job, right? You know, and earning money and understanding how to manage money and honoring that part of the journey.
Right? Giving the responsibility of, you know, taking care of siblings, taking care of the house, like leaving them alone and the parents going on a vacation or, you know, going on a trip and having, you know, the elder child or one of the folks remaining behind in charge. Right? So creating opportunities in that frame, in those frameworks and really giving them the intention they deserve.
Right because ultimately when it comes to again helping somebody recognize and see themselves it takes actually an initiatory process
Robert Trout (18:29.272)
Yes.
Paul (18:29.558)
Like if you’re gonna be leaving your child with a two young like your eldest child with two younger siblings You’re definitely gonna sit down and say okay. Here’s the rules. Here’s what we’re doing Here’s what you’re not doing Right, and here’s the things that you need to know in case things go wrong because we trust you Right, and I want to just say thank you. I Want to just say I know you’re capable for this and I want to just say hey you being this age
Robert Trout (18:39.138)
Hahaha
Paul (18:58.696)
and showing up in this way is a gift for us. Like that’s the extra little bit that creates an opportunity for your child to feel held and seen. It’s not just do this, don’t do this, this is how you manage the crisis. It’s the understanding of like, hey, this is big. And it’s those little bits of the wording or intentionality or honoring.
that can lay the fabric of that teen or that young adult going, yeah, this does feel big. wow, am, hmm, okay. Yeah, I feel it now. And they can see themselves in a different way.
Robert Trout (19:38.072)
Yep.
Yes, and let’s talk about that because that’s acknowledgement language, which is a part of rites of passage. It’s also just a skill in general as a parent for parents to practice, but acknowledgement language is one of the key factors to rites of passage being a rite of passage. Because if you just say the same thing you’ve always said, it doesn’t resonate. There’s no like impact.
Paul (19:45.982)
Yes.
Paul (19:50.74)
Certainly.
Robert Trout (20:06.508)
So a part of a rite of passage is recognizing that I’m about to say something to you in a way that’s never been said before. And that can be something really simple. And I’ll give two examples. One is the very basic, where you sit them down and say, I am for the first time recognizing that I can trust you with this. OK?
Paul (20:15.136)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (20:35.118)
Acknowledgement language for the first time Trusting you with this you’re tying them to being seen and trusted with something family secret Grandpa’s old knife whatever like whatever it is. You’re tying the importance of this using Acknowledgement language, which is tied directly into ceremony and write a passage work. Okay
Other language things outside of trust. I know for some families I’ve talked to one of the biggest moments of their life was being told for the first time that they were loved. And I know that sounds strange, but for some families, especially for our parents and generations past, saying I love you didn’t come so naturally. It wasn’t a thing for them. So for it to have that moment where they step into that, like, I love you.
Paul (21:14.228)
Hmm.
Robert Trout (21:31.134)
It broke something for these individuals. Okay, it really drove home the like I’ve reached a point where my parent can say this to me and I feel the meaning of it because of the impact and if it’s not I love you it can be even a step behind that where it’s I see you as not a child I’m not going to let myself see you as a child anymore. All of this is acknowledgement language
Paul (21:45.845)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (22:01.434)
and it’s up to the parent to recognize that the child needs this along the way or they stay a child. Let that sink in to everyone hearing this. They need this along the way from you. It can come from others too, but from you as the parent, there’s a biological imperative here.
Paul (22:21.352)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (22:24.982)
of them knowing that you have seen every day of their life, every screw up they’ve had, every mistake they’ve made, every success they’ve had, everything along the way. And you are the one saying to them, I see you and you’re not a child anymore. Go ahead.
Paul (22:44.426)
And I would even just like really drive that point home by saying in those moments, give them the story of that. Right, like give the details of like, hey, when you actually showed up and took care of your brother when he was really struggling and I wasn’t home, that was precious. That was meaningful. That’s what it means to actually just show up in an adult way.
I want to just hold that with you for a second. Like you showed up. The way that you, when I was sick, you volunteered yourself to go and get groceries. I mean, gosh, it feels kind of minor if we were to take a step back from it, but if we’re talking about like a 13 or 14 year old.
You know, that might be something that in some cultures is pretty normalized, and in other cultures that’s a very, very different behavior pattern. So that’s what we’re talking about is pointing out shifts in behavior, qualities that are showing up, ways that they’re actually being more responsible, being more available to being a part of the family in a way that
Robert Trout (23:45.774)
Yes.
Paul (24:06.342)
is claiming a role. And I want to just sit with that term for a second because that’s something that we talk about often with families, especially with kids who are coming back from programs or coming back from camps or coming back from different environments. And we want to acknowledge the change that’s occurred for them, which again, rites of passage, transitions, threshold moments.
giving them an opportunity to claim a role in the family or gifting them a role or acknowledging that they’ve already done that. That again is honoring that part of their journey and inviting them to the table of adulthood. Because at that threshold moment of like 12, 13, 14, you know, you are no longer the producer of their life. This is a funny framework to think of it. You’re no longer the producer of your life. You’re the consultant.
Right? So creating your almost threshold moment. You have a rite of passage as a parent as well, which is a really fascinating conversation to kind of dovetail into, but creating for yourself an understanding of, wow, my child is evolving and growing and maturing. So just as you said earlier, Rob, I can’t meet them in the same way.
Robert Trout (25:05.144)
Yes.
Paul (25:22.782)
I can no longer, it is no longer my job to rescue them, problem solve them, fix them, unless they ask that of me. Again, I’m a consultant, not a producer. So that’s really what it means to honor it moving forward is don’t fall back into parenting them as a child.
So it’s your responsibility to continue to honor that transition, even if in a future moment they show up again as the childlike version of themselves, because they’re going to flip flop. mean, shoot, I know grown men and grown women who end up acting like children. So when we’re really talking about recognizing somebody in their developmental stage, it’s about honoring the wisdom that they have.
Robert Trout (25:50.903)
and
Robert Trout (25:57.504)
Yep.
Paul (26:08.15)
even if in some moments they’re collapsed, in some moments they’re struggling, in some moments they’re overwhelmed, it doesn’t mean they’re lacking the wisdom or they’ve let go of it it’s disappeared. It means that life is life and we all struggle. And so this idea of threshold and rite of passage is the invitation into expecting a little bit more of them and inviting them into role, inviting them into a sense of greater purpose and actually
gifting them a bit more structure and responsibility. So you’re growing an adult. At this point, you’re like steamrolling the adulthood. So it is really about acknowledging it and having the conversation that gifts them the opportunity to see themselves.
Robert Trout (26:44.302)
You’re so stupid.
Robert Trout (26:53.464)
Yes. Yep.
Well, let’s, I guess, move towards closing thoughts on this because, I mean, my head’s just kind of spinning with both the, yes, you as a parent need to write a passage as well. And that would have happened in older cultures as well. know, grandparents would come to you and say, it’s time, right? Like, you have to go through a process of not being the mother or father of a small child anymore. You have to become something different and hand, very often even in…
Paul (27:10.89)
Definitely.
Robert Trout (27:26.036)
old, not even old, mean, 100 years ago, it was common practice that your 10 to 12 year old was chosen for their special skills and abilities and would be taken then to mentor under a master under the arts of whatever they were good at, whether that be blacksmithing or arrow making or, or military or whatever, like every child was given the opportunity to become the best versions of their strongest skill sets.
And this was just normalized by parents, but the parents also had to go through this like, my God, my baby’s moving on because they’re not a baby anymore. They’re moving into an adult prospect. So that stands out to me as something to consider, just a thought to kind of mull over as to what you might need as a parent. And then my last closing thought on this as a parent who’s listening to this where you’re saying, well, what should I do? Start simple.
Like we’re not talking about throwing a giant party with thousands of people. Like we’re really talking about lighting candle and sitting at a table in the dark with your child, having this bowl of ice cream and saying to them something like, it’s time for us to start talking differently. You’re old enough to have an opinion. And I am still ultimately in charge of deciding what we’re going to do about this subject or maybe our lifestyle or et cetera.
But you’ve reached the point that you get a voice. So we’re going to start meeting and having this moment where you get to tell me whatever’s going on and whatever you think about these things. And I will take that into serious consideration. But then you have to take it into serious consideration whatever they say and keep up the practice. That’s just a simple suggestion. But notice what I said in the dark with a candle. The reason for that is
for the neurological effect of that kid going, this is weird, this is different, what’s going on? Because it’s different enough that they’re paying so much attention to what’s happening right now and to that language that you’re going to use. And I guarantee you they’ll never forget it for the rest of their life because this moment was so significantly different. And really all you did was turn the lights off, light a candle, and eat some ice cream with your kid and have a conversation.
Paul (29:34.4)
Hmm.
Robert Trout (29:44.096)
in a new way. That’s a rite of passage. That’s just a simple example, but I don’t want anyone to think this is complicated. It’s just intentional. And that would be my closing thought. This is intentional work.
Paul (29:54.816)
Yeah.
Paul (30:00.796)
And you don’t have to do it yourself. If your kid already has a coach or a mentor or a friend’s parent or somebody who they look up to and respect, music teacher, and you are thinking about trying to generate a process like this, pull them into it. Like having a kid perform a difficult musical piece in front of an audience, that’s a rites of passage.
Right? Like creating opportunity to have your kids seen outside of the home by others, by other adults they respect, that they value. That’s actually how it was done in tribal settings. That’s how it was done in villages. It wasn’t just, you know, a single conversation. It was actually, you know, like a bar mitzvah. We’re all gathering. Right? But again, it could be so much more simple than that. And so…
Be creative, you know, and ask people about their creative ways that they honor their children, you know, because ultimately when it comes to growing a healthy young adult, the healthiest young adults that I’ve ever met are the ones that have been validated for their strengths and been encouraged by the people that love them. So when we’re talking about rites of passage, it’s really about communicating to your child that you see that they’re growing up.
Robert Trout (31:16.75)
Yes.
Robert Trout (31:28.462)
Absolutely.
Well, we hope this has been helpful and given you something to think about. And as always, come find us at parenttrainers.com. Come do one of our level one trainings and really jumpstart your process of understanding what your kid’s going to need as a tween teen and young adult. And come ask questions, join the community, and we hope to see you there.
