Robert Trout (00:01.722)
Well hello and welcome to the Parenting Problems Today podcast and today it’s myself Robert Trout and Paul Redondo from the Parent Trainers Team and we’re coming to you with a I’m gonna say difficult process for some parents to wrap their heads around. Today we want to drop in and talk about what’s called rupture and repair. The
Process of rupture and repair comes into when parents are talking about like I handled that really badly Right. This is the hindsight is 2020 and rupture is very simply looked at as I got in a fight with my kid or I yelled at my kid or I got really upset like you stepped into that parent process where They triggered something in you where your patience was gone
and you just wanted to get away from them sometimes or sometimes you fell into a pattern where you really just wanted them to respect your authority and just listen to you, you know, and kind of go through that process. Now, what we really step into, however, is an understanding that when there is rupture, very often that’s where rapport starts to fall apart between a parent and a child, especially a teenager and young adult.
because teenagers and young adults have fallen into this category where as they’re individuating, they also want to be respected. They also want to be heard and to understand that they’re a part of a community process within a family dynamic, whatever that family looks like. So today we’re gonna talk about rupture and repair. And I guess I’ll kick this off and then pass it to you, Paul, just around.
When I get on the phone with a parent and I’m thinking of several that have popped to the forefront of my mind, these are individuals that they respect that they don’t like the outcome of the process that they just went through with their teen or young adult. And this is really a self -reflective practice where they, after the fact, come to the table and say, OK, I feel really guilty, maybe.
Paul (02:04.011)
respect that they don’t like the outcome of the process that they just want to keep in their soul.
Robert Trout (02:23.182)
Right? Guilt is a huge one that comes up. Also, identified emotion is that they’re still angry. There’s something in them that’s kind of bubbling and kind of just holding inside of them. So they’re not actually capable. They recognize like, just want to stay away from this kid. Cause if I get close to them, it’s possible that this anger is going to erupt and lead to something that no one wants in the outcome of the process itself. So when I think of that,
Paul (02:51.722)
look at that very often the first thing I do is look at the parents go through the process of okay, let’s recognize what we’re just reacting to.
Robert Trout (02:52.366)
Very often the first thing I do is look at the parent and go through the process of, let’s recognize what trigger reacted in this situation because this is about you. Let’s remove the kid entirely because rupture and repair rupture comes first. And usually the best practice is to recognize where the rupture happened to you as an individual rather than looking at the whole of the situation. It’s like, okay, we have to go back.
you obviously backtracked into some memory, some kind of explosive response or shut down response or whatever it might have been. So the first step for me with parents that are looking at this is to recognize like you’re human. Which ironically is the hardest part because when they’re feeling that guilt or that anger bubbling or whatever the identify the motion is, very often we’re
Paul (03:34.084)
parents that are looking at this recognize that you’re a human. ironically is the hardest part because when they’re feeling that guilt or that anger bubbling or whatever the identify the notion is, very often the human brain shuts into the I’m a horrible person.
Robert Trout (03:49.352)
Human brain shuts into the all I’m I’m a horrible person or I’m a bad parent or I’m out There’s all this messaging that we create Based on the emotion we’re feeling rather than taking that breath and stepping back and going that didn’t go well That’s really all this is is that the situation I had with my kid didn’t go well and Ironically a lot of people are able to shift this where it’s like, okay if you had this argument or this situation
Paul (03:57.652)
based on the emotion we’re feeling rather than taking that breath, stepping back and going, that didn’t go well. That’s really all that is. The situation I had with my kids didn’t go well. And ironically, a lot of people are able to shift this where it’s like, okay, if you had this argument or this situation with a coworker, how would you feel? And very often the feelings are different because there’s a difference.
Robert Trout (04:18.884)
with a coworker, how would you feel? And very often the feelings are different because there’s a different sense of responsibility to the relationship with the customer or coworker or other parent at school or whatever it might be. So the first step for me when I’m working through this with a parent is to really allow them to identify where they went and what that trigger was that came.
to fruition in this conversation or fight or situation with their kid. So step one is identification. I learned from my parents, for example, this is one thing that a parent can say, is I learned that the parent must be listened to and respected at all costs. So when I didn’t feel that, I stepped into what my stepfather used to do or what my father used to do or whatever, whatever it might be for that parent.
Paul (05:01.898)
I learned that I was hearing.
Ahem.
Robert Trout (05:17.42)
It’s recognizing like, I learned this behavior from my family system that I grew up in. So the parent that’s able to do that level of like, okay, I’m backing up and I see that I am trying a strategy that worked for, seemingly, and that’s the irony is very often if we went back and talked to their parents, they felt guilty and they felt bad about how they handled the situation as well. But it’s kind of that generational
I did it this way, I did it this way, I did it this and now today the parent’s saying, well, this is just how it’s done. Because it’s learned behavior from their family system from when they were a kid. That’s very often something we can get to. Other times it’s just mental health overload where the parent was in so much anxiety about what was going on at work that the trigger wasn’t how they were raised. It’s about how they’re feeling and they’re not healthily.
Paul (06:11.626)
They’re feeling and they’re not totally discharging energy that they picked up during the day and they came home and all that energy had to go somewhere and there was that complete danger that one is $40 for something stupid. That set off the, I can get rid of this energy.
Robert Trout (06:14.544)
discharging the energy that they picked up during the day and they came home and all that energy had to go somewhere and there was that convenient teenager that wanted $40 for something stupid. You know, and that set off the, I can get rid of this energy neurologically. It’s not even a conscious choice sometimes. But step one definitely for me has always been identification. So Paul, what do you think about that? What’s step one for you or what do you go to?
Paul (06:44.97)
Certainly identification, right? Being able to take some space from your child, from the situation, being able to do, as you said, some reflective processes. And of course, it definitely has its origins, right? And sometimes for parents, it’s as simple as, well, if this kid could listen to me, if this kid could understand. And so, you know, for parents to understand also that, you know, a lot of their stressors are wrapped up around like,
growing their child into a healthy adult and if their child is being defiant or refusing to follow through with a task or a parent is like, my God, if they don’t get this, what does that mean in terms of how they show up in the world as a…
Participant in society and culture right like if they don’t develop a work ethic if they don’t develop accountability if they don’t develop responsibility if they don’t develop you know this capacity to follow through Then what does that mean? Not only for them, but me as a parent, you know And so it’s a very layered experience like this idea of rearing and what is what is it that we do to? Try and like get through to the kids and I mean as you said we’re human
Right? so along with that reflection time, I also encourage, know, hey, give yourself some grace because everything you’re doing with and for this child is such a deep effort that at the foundation of it is love and a deep desire to see your child successful. So give yourself a pat on the back for, you know, that efforting and also that self -reflection of, I could have done that better. You know, what’s mine to hold in this situation?
as much as your child’s not responding to you, as much as you’re, in the relationship to that desire for them to show up, sometimes we can get a little bit more agitated and tone can show up in our voice, so our presentation, our eyes just get a little bit bigger because we’re like, you don’t understand this? How many times have I said this? And so, you know, in that…
Paul (08:52.924)
we’re addressing the cycles that come into family systems. so when we’re talking about a repair process, some of this is trying to unplug that sort of cyclical conversation, step out and have some perspective of why do we continue to do it this way? How come it always results in this type of conversation or argument or explosion or, you know, locked horns sort of experience or avoidance?
It can happen in so many different ways. So this idea of rupture is, again, this understanding of, we’re not doing this skillfully.
What’s mine to own? Where do I falter? Where do I, you know, again fall into the pattern of getting big or getting more intense or starting to show up in a bigger posture or, you know, or maybe it’s your kid doing that and your kids following you around the house and your kids getting bigger. And, know, so, and you’re trying to remove yourself very responsibly, responsibly, but your child is the one in
pursued and the anger is like really contained within their you know cognition and behavioral patterns so it’s a lot to unpack you know being able to be objective in the reflection right and create the space for slowing down and often it takes you know
a conversation with maybe an observer outside of the experience to be able to contextualize what’s actually happening and how often does it happen and what do you see as the triggers? And so I very much like to encourage family members or even extended family members to participate in these conversations with the utmost compassion for the process, right? Like watching out for the pointing of the finger and the accusatory nature
Robert Trout (10:26.063)
Mm
Paul (10:50.874)
the potential of that conversation, but more of a, let’s slow down and create space for us to go, hmm, this isn’t working, this isn’t functional.
And then how do we bring that forward to the other side, the child? Or maybe even how does a child bring it forward to their parent? Because repair can be instigated by either side in relationship. And ideally, both people have that skill set so that when it comes forward, it actually generates more functionality and receptivity and ease. And maybe even down the line, it’s normal.
Right? So what we’re talking about here in this idea of rupture and repair is integrating a skill set that ultimately supports this unwinding of patterns through multiple facets. And, you know, as you said, Rob, the unlearning of patterns that have been handed down generationally.
Robert Trout (11:45.198)
Yes, that’s definitely a big part of it. And there’s also, for me, I love to bring up the definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. And this definition comes in not in the sense of, you’re all insane. It’s just a understanding where, hold on, take a breath. And I’ve actually had to ask parents how many times
Have you had this conversation in the last week? Right? And very often they’re like, my God, every day, two or three times. And I’m like, okay, take a breath. After that breath, tell me, is the issue that’s happening over and over again, every day, two or three times every day of this week, is that something that…
Justifies the amount of time and emotional energy that you’ve put into it Or is there a space to step back and go? Okay, something’s missing Right. I keep trying to get my kid to hear this change do this thing etc And very often when I do that kind of reflective practice they come back and well I do try But I tried the same exact way every single time
Very often the kid, teenager, young adult, it doesn’t matter, will come in and say, well, that’s just the dad’s speech. And I love that metaphor. like, that’s just, hear that word, that’s just, the dad’s speech. So they have already made that irrelevant. The just removes all power because they know exactly what you’re about to say. So there is no surprise. There is nothing different. There’s nothing for them to pay attention to.
Paul (13:16.997)
Right.
Paul (13:30.822)
No, exactly.
Robert Trout (13:39.382)
It just adds to their like, I can ignore this because I’ve already heard this. I have this speech memorized. So there’s an element of ignore. Sometimes it’s actually shame building where they’re like, my God, here it is again. I’m bad. I did the same mistake again versus the stepping back and being able to really recognize from the individual. you’re not getting this. So however,
Paul (13:55.824)
Mm -hmm.
Robert Trout (14:09.464)
you as the parent are presenting the process, the rupture is really about creating distance. That’s the definition of rupture is to go from whole to separate. And there is an individuation happening that’s healthy. However, rupture is to identify the, this is not helping either one of you. You’re getting farther and farther from each other so that you have to scream louder so they hear you, metaphorically, right?
the farther the rupture, and literally sometimes it’s like, they’re way over there. They’ve left you because they don’t want to deal with this conversation again. So I want to make sure people understand that rupture really is an important aspect of the reflective process, that the more you do the same thing over and over and over again, the more distance you’re creating literally or sometimes just metaphorically in the relationship with this individual.
Paul (14:39.301)
And literally.
Robert Trout (15:08.668)
And that’s why it’s so important therapeutically for parents to recognize like the kids not doing that. You are. The kid is making the same mistake over and over again. I will grant you that. However, very often what we find is when we step in, there’s a neurological or developmental process happening there where it’s not, I’m going to say it’s not that kid’s fault.
They’re doing the same thing over and over again because it’s a learned behavior or it’s a coping mechanism or there’s something that they’re totally missing, right? With executive functioning, for example, if their brain isn’t fully processing that information, they’re not picking up their clothes off their floor, not because they don’t want to, but as they literally, and this is what’s so hard for so many adults, this kid literally can’t see them.
They just can’t. You can because you care. You care that the clothes are on the floor. They don’t care. It’s not high on their neurological priority list. So the argument you’re having about it every day isn’t reinforcing a solution. It’s just creating rupture in the relationship.
Any thoughts on that?
Paul (16:25.204)
I mean, what you touched on there, executive functioning, big term, right? And when we talk about neurological development, it’s one thing that we just trust that little kids don’t have, which is why we help them pack their backpack and make their lunch for them and get them out the door to school. As humans age,
Ideally, you know if they’re neuro normative and they have the capacity they develop these skills of organization task prioritization task initiation and then there are some kids who neurologically just are either delayed or it’s a deficit and so being able to wrap your head around Again, is it willingness or capacity? You know a very interesting distinction and then how do I support that right and if it’s a capacity issue? That’s when it’s
for us as caregivers to be educated about what that means and how to support that. And of course we’re talking about rupture and repair right now and some of the rupture does come because the kid doesn’t feel understood or they don’t and as you said Rob they don’t catch the meaning of the conversation you’re trying to have. Excuse me. And so creating the space to slow down.
meet them where they’re at because a lot of parents are trying to pull them over to where they think they should be and the kid is resting in their own again capacity and sometimes willingness and they don’t even know how to get there with you in terms of following through or again holding the organizational elements that you’re offering because they can’t track be beyond like bullet point number two and you’re giving them three four five
Right? In terms of following through with tasks and again, cleaning up the bedroom is a very classic example. They’re overwhelmed by the look of it and then they’ll just collapse on the bed is pretty typical when somebody’s, you know, struggled or they have the barrier of low executive functioning.
Paul (18:24.552)
That said, when it comes to really understanding the rupture process, being able to show up in a way that allows them to be receptive. I mean, if you feel like you’re being the broken record, you’re being a broken record. And so eventually that becomes static in the background. And that’s actually the story they have of you. So again, being self -reflective, being objective.
Robert Trout (18:40.452)
Yeah.
Yes.
Paul (18:50.87)
One of the things, especially with teens, is they want to feel like they’re part of the conversation. They want to feel like they actually have some agency, some independence, some autonomy. so often one of the best things to do is when you recognize yourself like falling into that trap of being that broken record or being in that repetitive loop of that conversation, pause and if you can, step out and go, hey.
Instead of me telling you the expectations, how about you tell me what you’ve heard because you’ve heard me say this a hundred times.
Right because then it’s about including them in the conversation and and that’s part of what we’re talking about when we’re talking about disrupting these loops and laying down a fabric of relationship that moves beyond rupture and heals patterns Right, but you have to almost even get to the idea of that through a repair process Where it’s first acknowledged. Hey, this hasn’t been working. Hey, i’ve noticed we fall into this This cycle of me and you talking about the bedroom hot button topic or me and you
Robert Trout (19:24.762)
Yes.
Robert Trout (19:43.162)
Yes.
Paul (19:53.864)
talking about like cleaning up after yourself in the kitchen or me and you talking about homework and school attendance or the use of the car or
Perfume or social engagement or you know, I mean it spans all topics of course like how you treat your siblings I mean it goes on and on so being able to first Generate the insight about what it is, right? We’re gonna be a broken record ourselves talking about that to support you and in bringing that to you know Awareness up in the forefront for yourselves. What is the pattern? What is the cycle? What is
Robert Trout (20:12.238)
All of them, yes.
Robert Trout (20:26.362)
Hahaha
Paul (20:35.651)
language I use. How do I continue to engage them even in the same environment? Because sometimes you just switch the environment, switch the language, and it’s a different conversation. So, go ahead Rob.
Robert Trout (20:48.308)
Yes. There’s also the important aspect to that of forgive yourself first. Right? Like you’re human, you have to make space for that because the biggest roadblock I think I run into is guilt. The parent feels guilty, they did this wrong, they hurt their kids feelings, they’re being mean to them, whatever the belief is, however they want to put words to it in the narrative practice that I use it. It’s like, okay, this is really about
Paul (20:54.268)
Certainly.
Paul (21:01.766)
Mm -mm.
Robert Trout (21:17.282)
recognizing the loop and recognizing that the trigger leads to an outcome trigger as well, where now you’re stuck in a cycle where you want to avoid them or you hope they got it this time or whatever it might be. It’s really that, I didn’t handle that well. And having that like, okay, now what? So the repair aspect that you’re speaking to, maybe we should just totally shift into that right now is
Paul (21:36.446)
Mm
Paul (21:40.328)
Okay.
Paul (21:46.055)
Mm -hmm, certainly.
Robert Trout (21:47.268)
centered on I didn’t handle that well. In the reflection, then to the solution, the solution moves towards repair, which starts with, as an adult, I recognize that I played a part in what just happened, whatever it was. It doesn’t matter what the scenario is. You played a part in the outcome and the process itself as an individual. So.
Paul (21:50.225)
reflection
Robert Trout (22:15.822)
When I step into repair, I actually really try to focus on language. And one of the biggest things I say to parents is when you go back to them to start this repair process, the first thing you have to remember is that you’re not sorry. And God, I get some backlash on this sometimes. But I’m a huge proponent and speaker to the idea that I’m sorry is a language trigger.
that plays into a lot of mental health disorders. For example, if the child has a personality disorder or budding personality disorder, I’m sorry is a power play. It is a power dynamic where very often if you are sorry, they use that to enforce guilt or enforce an outcome that they’re really hoping for. So when we really look at a mental health aspect to this, I just ask parents to recognize that going back to repair,
Paul (23:01.492)
you.
Robert Trout (23:12.79)
Isn’t an apology and that’s okay. It’s not a you know, I’m so sorry. Let’s be friends again. It’s a showing up with them and I really love the language of going back to the individual and saying I recognize That that didn’t go well That neither one of us was able to get through that conversation or that interaction in a way that feels good to me
And I’d like to try again. Are you okay with doing that now or would you like to do that in an hour or two when we have time to meet again? Right, so we get some other skills in that language, but that package really allows people to show up where the repair was the I was with you in what just did not work. So it fixes or draws part of that rupture back together.
where it’s like I was in it with you. And that language really helps most kids, especially teenagers, look and go, that wasn’t me? That wasn’t all on me? You were with me? So it’s that belonging and that like we are something together as well as individuals. So I always start there in the don’t go in, it’s not about being sorry. Don’t be sorry. That’s something I really hone in on. It’s the…
Paul (24:13.875)
Mm -hmm.
Paul (24:29.011)
Mm -hmm.
Robert Trout (24:39.914)
I was in it with you. That’s the important aspect of showing back up in this repair process at stage one of repair is I’m back and I’d like to do this differently with your help, with your opinion, with your knowledge and your wants and needs important just as much as mine are. I start there. Where do you think it goes?
Paul (25:06.719)
Can. Yeah, I think it’s exactly that. I would just puzzle through with a parent about what language is authentic to you, right? Because of course we’re talking a lot and have used a lot of language in this conversation thus far through a therapeutic lens, right? And what my hope is for every single family is that when.
Developing a repair process, it feels authentic, it feels easeful, it feels loving, it feels compassionate. It’s an offering of grace, not only to yourself, but to the person on the other side of the conversation. And it can be so simple. And if it’s authentic to you to go, hey, we kind of suck about talking about school. That’s something.
I’d love to work on and figure out because honestly my intention is to just support you and help you be successful. You know, and be able to put your intention out up front.
Right. And create the space for them to understand, Hey, we’re not going to drop back into a conversation where it then becomes like tit for tat again. That’s not the, that’s not the intention of this conversation. Let me like bring forward the topic and let you know where it’s actually coming from for me. Because I think again, the kid has a story about who you are in those certain topics, those certain conversations. And if you can put your intention out front about the source of where the energy comes from, where maybe the expression of agitation and frustration and
patience comes from and really attempt to land it in a slow way, that can shift some perspective for them. And again, lay the foundation for opening up a different way of being with a certain topic. So open it up with something that feels, again, authentic to the language of your family system, and then land your intention about why you’re bringing it up.
Robert Trout (27:02.602)
And I do want to make sure that anyone listening to this recognizes that there is a core message, however, that if your family culture, if your family dynamic dictates that like, okay, this is authentic to us, meaning it’s what we know and have done, there’s also got to be some room there for, and I’d like to learn to do this differently. You know, that’s a part of the work that for anyone listening is
If what you do doesn’t work, then it’s time to add something to your menu. That’s where it’s like, okay, if you only have one trick, it’s time to learn five more. And in doing that, you start to practice your new skills and they then become authentic to you. So there is a change process to learning new abilities and skill sets and opening your mind to the
the one way I know to do this may not be the best for my child because they’re not you. Just because your parents raised you or spoke to you or structured you in a certain way to get you to survive to be a young adult or then adult and then now a parent doesn’t mean that that process will work for your child, especially if we start looking at the mental health or therapeutic side of what’s going on for them neurologically.
Paul (28:07.517)
Mm
Robert Trout (28:29.164)
especially with personality disorders or autism, anywhere on that spectrum. Like these kids are gonna be different than you were as a child. So, yes.
Paul (28:39.949)
Even just heightened anxiety.
Right? Like somebody with a heightened anxiety disorder or presents where you see their eyes a little wider, right? Like that is them being hypervigilant and maybe falling into self -esteem challenges or self -worth or shame, as you said earlier, Rob. So, you know, watching out for again, how are you stepping into this process? Because slight shifts in tone, you know, how quickly you speak in that sort of like
environment because it takes a little time and it’s worth acknowledging that one huge, huge suggestion that I I circle back to with every single family that I work with is slow down.
because the faster you talk, the more pressured the conversation is. If you can create pauses, if you can actually, at the very least, have an affect of being thoughtful, even if internally your mind’s going 100 miles an hour, take a step back and look up and process for a second.
Robert Trout (29:44.73)
Yep.
Paul (29:48.529)
couple of heartbeats and then step back into the conversation to let them know that you’re there with them. Not to make them change, but to be with them in a process at their pace. Because, and I think this is one of the bigger challenges for the majority of the parents is I only have so much time and I need to get through this conversation. And there’s an adage that I’m a broken record around, which is go slow to be efficient.
go slow to be efficient because if you can slow down and say things to help them land for the kids and you can give them the space that they need to articulate their side of the street and you can do maybe some reflective listening to make sure that they feel heard, then they don’t have to repeat themselves. You don’t have to repeat yourself. And then you can move through this process to get to those solutions, right? Because oftentimes,
Here’s some of the skills that you were talking about a moment ago. Open up your toolbox and start shoving more tools in. The first one is a really quick acronym, OPS. Observation, Perception, Suggestion. Observation, Perception, Suggestion. If we can create the distinction of those three elements, that in itself is a repair process. If we can speak objectively first, and it’s not about you,
and it’s sometimes not even about me. Sometimes the easiest way to say it is a we. Hey, I noticed when we talk about school, we start to talk over each other, we start to get really agitated, we start pointing fingers, and ultimately it devolves into language rather than the topic that we’re talking about because we get hooked on, you know, certain words that we say, and then we always try and be right.
Right, and so being able to, if you were a fly on the wall, how would you describe the scenario? Right, and so that’s the first step. This is what is observable about the dynamic. The second, perception. So.
Paul (32:01.723)
My perception in the way that those conversations play out is frustration happens on both sides. Maybe we don’t feel heard. Maybe we feel like we’re misunderstood. Maybe you feel like I’m just saying the same thing over again as if you’re not listening.
I’d like to hear from you, what’s your perception about how we operate? And in that moment, parent, you’re probably gonna have to brace yourself for hearing something that might be challenging to hear, because they might kind of point at you and use the you. As much as I’m saying don’t say you, they might do it, right? So you might have to just be able to tolerate the wave of that experience, because maybe they haven’t felt like they’ve had the opportunity to express themselves in that way.
And so observation, perception, and then the third and most important element is suggestion, which is how do we move forward? What’s the way that we can talk about it? Is it more important for it to be a scheduled conversation so it doesn’t feel like it’s out of the blue? there, yeah, what’s the way that I can help you feel supported rather than you feeling micromanaged?
How do we have that conversation? Because really, I could see you suffering with your homework. I could see you struggling to stay focused to write the paper. I know that, again, observation, when I bring up things like how are you doing with your homework, feels like perception is probably like you don’t feel like I trust that you have things under control. And so as you unpack this idea of a repair process,
It has a little bit of a flow to it. And again, if you can hold certain elements to make sure that you stay on track observation perception, and again, ultimately that suggestive, like, how do we be more solution oriented? If you can normalize that as a process and generate that sort of conversation, again, you’re disrupting the loops and you’re reinforcing, we can have these conversations. So being able to,
Paul (34:13.892)
normalize it, create space for it, and then, you know, ultimately this is what they take into their future relationships, right? Like, you’re teaching them how to have healthier adult relationships down the line, right? So it takes a little time to integrate it and yeah, anything you want to add to that piece there, Rob?
Robert Trout (34:32.826)
Yep.
Just that for my own work with families, I’ve kind of narrowed this into three steps to keep it as simple as humanly possible. That when you’re doing repair work, action number one is to not be sorry. So it’s when I translate that action number one is we are coming together. We are coming together to do this differently. Right? So.
Action step number one is get back to a we both want this to be better. Right? So, yeah. Right? So if you if every time you show up as an I, you know, or a you should respect me, you know, a separating language, every time you do that, you’re just starting over again. You’re putting them right back in the defensive, right back in the shame, right back into wherever they go.
Paul (35:11.779)
This sucks for both of us.
Paul (35:28.937)
Mm -hmm.
Robert Trout (35:35.728)
depending on what’s going on, because you’re not showing up in a problem -solving mode. So step one is become a we. Step two is do it differently. I don’t care how. How is honestly a little irrelevant because it’s just recognizing that if you start the mom speech again, then you’re just trying to do what already happened two hours ago over again. So…
Very often that’s turning like you mentioned earlier the, hey, I’m just wondering if you can tell me what you think I’m about to say. That’s an easy way to do it differently is reverse the roles where they’re taking on the parent speech and you reflect what you hear, because that’s what you’re hoping to get from them in the first place is I hear you, right? You just want to be respected enough that what you have to say carries some kind of weight or value or et cetera.
Paul (36:27.059)
Mm -hmm.
Robert Trout (36:33.7)
That’s what most parents get to at least is the I just like to know that they heard that I’m concerned or whatever it might be. So reverse the roles or have it done where they write down, right? Take verbal language out of the equations. Another simple skill set to do where it’s like I write and then pass it to them. They write and pass it to you because it removes the facial expression, the energy, etc. Where you’re reading it and you’re doing it.
Paul (36:40.627)
Mm -hmm.
Robert Trout (37:01.348)
That’s another simple thing. Other things is go for a walk or a drive listening to music and have the conversation where you’re not facing each other face to face. So, so those are just some concrete examples, but step one is we, so bring it back together. Step two is do it differently than you did it before. That’s step two. And step three is very simple. Let go of the outcome. You as the parent have to be the adult in the broom.
Paul (37:08.726)
Mm -hmm.
Robert Trout (37:29.752)
You have to be the one to recognize that having this conversation, even differently, even without fighting or doing the rupture aspect to it, you’re the one that’s hoping that this is going to solve all of it. They’re going to listen from now on and pick up those clothes and not drive too fast or whatever the issue was. It doesn’t matter. You have to be the one to say the point of this is to build relationship and repair that relationship.
so that we can get closer and closer and build a positive communication structure for the future, knowing, and this is what’s so hard, you have to know that they’re gonna make this mistake again. Just let go of the outcome that this is gonna be over, that it’s gonna be fixed after this interaction, especially with a teenager. If you’re talking to a teenager, you should expect them to make this mistake again. Now,
What you should be looking for, in my opinion, is for them to make the mistake in a slightly worse way or to make the mistake in a completely different way so that you can interact with it in a different manner moving forward, but keeping this flow going where it’s like, we ruptured this a month ago and now every time we have this conversation, we do it in a different way. I’m getting through to them 15 different ways rather than hoping that my
Powerful voice will be heard and respected. It’s like no, no, no like have them draw it in crowns Right the outcome that you’re hoping for or whatever it might be you just have to try different Until you build the relationship where you can communicate about really difficult things Without the explosion or the shame or the guilt or whatever reactions we’re looking for here
We’re just removing the reaction so that you two build an ability to communicate in your own style and every family is different. That’s okay. There’s not a one answer here. It’s just about the work to get there. So that’s what I would usually suggest for families to really kind of flow with is those three steps.
Paul (39:24.935)
Mm -hmm.
Paul (39:29.287)
Mm -hmm.
Paul (39:37.393)
Mm -hmm. And I think it’s important to also just really recognize that, I mean, a lot of families are dealing with some pretty hard topics. And the way to introduce a new element, a new communication style, a new way of being like a repair process, try it out first on a not so heavy topic.
because the emotionality that comes from frustration that might have built up to resentment, that can get in the way of learning a new skill. So think about it through the lens of something that’s a little more easeful. Maybe it’s not about school. Maybe it’s about taking your stuff out of the living room.
right, or cleaning up after yourself in the kitchen, or maybe that’s the hot button topic, and you need to talk about something different, right, like filling the car up with gas if they use it, right, something that feels like we can manage this, we can develop a skill around this, so that ultimately we can take on heavier topics or more emotionally wrought situations.
Robert Trout (40:29.646)
Mm -hmm.
Paul (40:49.467)
with a little bit of reps under the belt in terms of understanding the functionality of it and how to make it work.
Robert Trout (41:00.494)
All right, so let’s move towards kind of closing thoughts on this for both of us. What I feel like is kind of missing or what I’d like everyone to hear as we kind of close this topic out is that the parent, if you’re listening to this and you’re the parent and you’re shaking your head yes, it’s like, I need to do that or I need to put in one of these processes to change how I’m interacting with my teenager.
The parent has to be the one to initiate this. You just have to. And the reason is usually that your child doesn’t have the maturity or even the wanting to repair. Because when, especially for teens, if you rupture with a teenager, they’re already trying to individuate. So they take it as permission to not value you. So.
Paul (41:46.408)
Yeah.
Robert Trout (41:58.948)
They’re not sitting there being like, I need to go back and apologize and make mom, dad, whoever happy. That’s not their thought. So when it comes to initiation, and I’m saying that pretty typically, but typically, they’re not going to be the ones reinforcing the relationship aspect. Because if they decide to hate you or that you’re a bad parent or they don’t need to listen to you,
Paul (42:08.829)
Mm -hmm.
Robert Trout (42:24.954)
then the further you get away from each other, the more permission they have to just be as individual as they want because you don’t matter. So the initiation is my closing thought for parents on this, that you have to be the one to say it matters that we stay close enough to problem solve for us to learn from each other. This isn’t a one way street. And to respect that you as an individual are becoming.
an individual that I will eventually need to let go of. You need to learn to function and to do these kind of communication processes that work, for example, and to make friends and connect with humans in general. So you need to respect or understand that your role as the parent is that you are the…
And the adult with the prefrontal cortex and the ability to put these thoughts together is the one that needs to step in and say, OK, that didn’t go well. And I need to go back and admit that that didn’t go well and that I was a part of it. And that can be really hard, really difficult for some people because it’s saying like, you know, I did something wrong. like, well, you probably did.
Paul (43:36.211)
Mm -hmm.
Robert Trout (43:47.364)
but not wrong in the sense that there’s a catastrophic outcome. Wrong in the sense of, didn’t reach the level of connection with my child that’s going to create change. That’s all we’re talking about here, is the way I did that didn’t reach the outcome that I’m hoping for. So I need to be the one to say, I still want that outcome. That outcome is important for them to learn to pick up their clothes or do their laundry or not speed or…
whatever the situation was, they still need to learn that. So as the parent, I have that responsibility then to turn around and say, okay, I’m gonna go back and reinitiate this in a way that hopefully leads closer to the outcome versus what I participated in before that ruptured and didn’t go.
Paul (44:40.089)
Yeah, I guess the last thing I’ll say is we’ve talked about like this idea of cycles and loops and really what we’re addressing our stories. You have a story about your child. Your child definitely has stories about who you are, right? And they’re constantly reinforced through behavior patterns. And…
What this this topic is really encouraging is a disruption of story, a change to a potential greater depth of relationship. I think a lot of parents, you know, we were raised by parents who didn’t show a lot of like vulnerability. They didn’t show a capacity to have these conversations. So it is a certainly a foreign experience to integrate something like a repair process in the way that we’re encouraging it.
with some authenticity and again, not necessarily apologizing, yet some accountability, right? And creating the space for a conversation about clear communication.
about connection, about responsibility and relationship. So being able to slow down and understand that the intention is connection. The intention is reinforcement of integrity and honesty and authenticity. And there’s a responsibility that every individual has within relationship to continue to show up. So sit with that.
I mean, please reach out to us, ask questions. We’d be happy to have a more specific dialogue around.
Paul (46:24.513)
individual dynamics are occurring for you and how to unpack them and develop language again authentic to you, authentic to your family because yeah we’re not telling you to be a therapist. We’re hoping you to be authentically you in a way that actually develops and deepens the culture of your family system so that there’s ultimately at the foundation of it love and respect.
Robert Trout (46:37.872)
No.
Robert Trout (46:53.7)
All right, yeah, if anyone’s out there and wants to reach out to us, we’re at parenttrainers .com and we hope this was helpful.
