Robert Trout (00:01.838)
Hello and welcome to the Parent Problems Today podcast. Today you’re joined by myself, Robert Trout, Mary Zaunbrecher from the Parent Trainers Team. And today’s episode that we’re coming to is a really broad conversation that we’d like to kind of just step into with all the parents that are listening to this because very often parents start looking for help, start looking for resources and start looking for problems.
all in different places. Okay, so we’re gonna kind of step into this to give a broad view of how parents start seeking help and what they’re looking for. Now, some parents would say, why are we talking about this? And really, it’s a conversation that needs to be had because some parents wait too long. It is the biggest regret that we work with families on
is hearing them say, I wish we had found this three years ago. I wish we had found you when she was 12. I wish, I wish, I wish. And a part of that is that a lot of parents don’t know when and what to pay attention to as they have a kid that’s a tween, teen, or young adult. So Mary, let’s start this off. Give me some…
broad examples from your experience in this world of what parents start to go, huh, something might be wrong. Let’s start there and then work our way into this.
Mary (01:42.094)
Yeah, I mean for most families I work with, it’s compounding issues, right? So one issue, issue at school, okay. Get a tutor, right? Issue with friends, okay, we can handle that. But it’s when families start to see the compounding issues where they tend to finally say, ooh, we need to do something, right? And…
It’s really interesting to me, you know, the externalizers always get picked out first, right? So those children who tend to take their emotions and wear them outside and put things into action that are noticeable, disruptive to daily life, get in the way of certain things, right? Those are the issues that…
are a lot easier to say, okay, this is a problem, because we’re seeing it, right? Where I find parents really saying, I wish we would have done this five years ago, 10 years ago, are the kids who are kind of the internalizers who don’t display as many outward or aggressive behaviors or disruptive behaviors, but are just kind of like in their own stuff.
you know, not very motivated, struggling maybe with thoughts that they’re not talking about, maybe on the cusp of like some grade issues along with that, maybe not socially getting out at all, but none of this is harmful, right? And so those are the moments that I tend to really share in just that sadness for parents of like, it doesn’t seem that
It didn’t seem that bad and I didn’t know and they weren’t communicating, right? But from there, yes, trying to figure out like, okay, we’re here now, what do we do? Right?
Robert Trout (03:49.794)
Yeah, absolutely. I agree with you about the external and internal. I think the thing that gets missed a lot in the parenting journey with tweens especially are the parents that get caught up in the everything’s fine enough, right? Like too many parents, I’m going to say in retrospect, right? And I need every family to hear that. There’s no blame here.
Mary (04:07.194)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (04:17.313)
But in retrospect, they find these statements coming from a place of, well, it really wasn’t that bad. And it didn’t impact us or me or our family dynamic. It was just something they were struggling with. So it is a downplay. Parents definitely downplay the like, you know, they went from A’s to B’s and they didn’t. It’s like, okay, I guess this is just harder for them.
versus the recognition of that assessment that we’ve talked about on previous episodes of why. Let’s dig into the patterns that are developing because all mental health is kind of diagnosed and tracked through patterns. When did it start? Was there an event? What was the pattern that started to develop psychologically, neurologically, et cetera? And for all of these parents, they
They’re not looking for these things until they’re well into it.
Mary (05:21.976)
Right, or they see it as pretty normal teenage behaviors, right? Like staying in their room more. It’s 10th, 11th grade, things get harder, they struggle a little more with grades, right? And yeah, just to put into perspective, like a lot of things are normal teenage behaviors and we don’t really know that tipping point of when does this actually become problematic, a concern, an issue that
my child is just not willing to talk about because of the dynamics that they’ve grown up in, whatever the case may be, right? And I think we’ve got an episode on that, like what are normal behaviors versus concerning behaviors, you know, it’s apparent in our work.
Robert Trout (05:58.744)
Yes.
Robert Trout (06:09.837)
So for anyone that’s listening, like we’re talking about what are parents looking for. So let’s start translating this because there is a key point in assessment about paying enough attention to say something’s changing now. There is an awareness factor there. And step one is understanding without judgment that most parents, especially ones that end up in work with us or therapy or treatment or et cetera,
they weren’t watching for these signs and there was a lack of preventative work in that. So if we remove all judgment from that and we just recognize it, we start looking at, what are parents looking for? And from these behaviors, we move into the, well, they start looking for solutions to the problem when the problem gets big enough. So let’s jump into that.
What solutions do you find most parents talking about? And I want to be clear to all the parents listening, when I say solutions, that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea or the right idea. Okay? This is something that happens that people try to problem solve, but they very often problem solve from a limited understanding or capacity of what options might actually be valid for what we’re facing. So first thoughts on that.
Mary (07:32.89)
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, my first jump to is just this idea of, you know, human nature. And when things start to feel outside of our control, our first natural instinct is to try to start exerting control over the issue or that person, right? And so that oftentimes does tend to look like in our culture, punishment. Oftentimes it looks like punishment that’s not really
you know, in line with what’s actually going on in terms of like a natural logical consequence for teens. And so that’s kind of the first step. And then what I tend to see with that is when parents start pushing, especially on a tween, a teen, a young adult who is trying age appropriately to develop autonomy and independence and learn about themselves, they get pushed back. And so then it starts to look like a behavioral issue.
where then they maybe start to say, therapy, right? We need some therapy. We need the school counselor involved. We need someone to step in to help manage behaviors. And again, therapy, you know, we all have therapeutic backgrounds. Like therapy is very helpful and useful to a certain point and with kids who are willing to engage fully, right?
Yeah, I just kind of see that kind of natural trajectory with a lot of the families I work with.
Robert Trout (09:07.158)
Yes. So let’s be specific to anyone listening. We are not saying therapy is a bad thing. What we are saying is therapy is not the solution. It never has been in my experience. It’s like it’s a tool to help someone unpack whatever might be happening for them. And then therapy very often will lead to psychological assessment because the therapist says, well, this person won’t unlock.
there’s something else happening here. So we need to do some psych testing and find out what’s happening neurologically or developmentally, learning disabilities, whatever it might be. So it does very often lead to some answers, but the solutions are not as simple as go sit in this office for a week and spill your guts and your life will get better. That is a misconception. And I will be the first to stand on the mountain top and scream that.
Therapy is not the answer. It is a tool to help someone kind of move along but solutions are very often when families do get to people like us where they’re looking for actions and behaviors on the parent side to build boundaries and relationship and to develop a system around supporting whatever is really happening for that kid to get to that place of saying
Mary (10:20.26)
Mm-hmm.
Robert Trout (10:33.61)
Okay, as a family, we are holding this together, educating, re-educating, and then moving forward so that people become functional adults, both the parents and the kid, as we do this. So it’s helping the system move forward. So for any parent listening, if you’ve ever heard me on any podcast or et cetera, I think the statement that’s gonna always stand out for me is the, you…
Mary (10:44.88)
Okay.
Robert Trout (11:02.936)
can’t solve this for them. So the solution is to change the whole container. Okay? So if you’re out there and you’re saying, I want to help them, then you have to turn that back and say, I need to learn to be helpful. I need to learn to be helpful in this. And that’s not just psychoeducation, right? So we’re looking at that where it’s like,
You can read about autism all you want, but how to actually be and function and set the example and to teach what you have learned from the books to your child and to put that into practice is a completely different matter. I have met some very, very knowledgeable parents about ADHD. God, they know everything except how to get their kid
to come out of the stagnant pattern that they’re in, into a new way of being and a new way of functioning within the parameters of what they’re trying to accomplish in their life. it’s, don’t, pick a subject. I don’t care what it is, right? Autism, ADHD, depression, anxiety, suicidality, I don’t care. I don’t care what the subject is. If you’re a parent out there and you’ve gone down the rabbit hole of research,
then that’s an indicator from this topic alone. Like, what are parents looking for? They’re looking for solutions. They’re also looking for answers, and they’re very often looking for something that makes them feel better that this isn’t their fault.
And that, let me say that again, they’re looking for something that makes them feel better, the parent feel better, that this, whatever the events are, is not their fault.
Robert Trout (12:55.586)
hearing that, I know that hits some people right in the heart. Boom! And, what parents are very often really looking for is not that this isn’t their fault. They want something to do. They want the action steps in order to become a good mentor, teacher, processor. You fill in the blank. Whatever you’re trying to become.
because you want to be a part of your kid’s life and you want to be able to teach them to become functional adults. But you have to battle your internal world, your sense of control, like you were saying at the beginning of this. There’s so much that you as a parent have to turn over and say, okay, I have to let all of this go because those are false realities when I think I can make this better. I can change this. It’s like, no, I can change myself.
Create the scenario that they can get better and they can learn this and they can become successful Speaking about the child So you have to become that so at its root I think that’s where this conversation always has to head is parents are looking for the skills and ability the techniques to become functional teachers mentors and Have a relationship
with their kid. But you have to go through a lot of stuff, a lot of mistakes and a lot of thought patterns, belief patterns and things and break them one by one until you get to that place of going, this is a we thing. This whole process is a we thing. Thoughts on that?
Mary (14:36.996)
Mm-hmm.
Mary (14:42.722)
Yeah, mean, everything you’re saying really hits home for mostly everyone I’ve worked with. You know, we want information, we want labels, because then we have a set of objectives to then accomplish, right? It’s like parents want to step in as everything for their child. And of course, it’s out of love, you know? It’s our emotional attachment to the outcome of anything with a loved one.
actually is what prevents us from being effective with our loved ones, right? There’s really cool stories about this out there. But what I tell most parents is it is admirable and lovely to do all of the research on your child, to collect data, to want to understand it differently. But oftentimes what this leads to is actually very disconnecting for the relationship. It leads to lectures.
It leads to, you know, trying to set boundaries around certain things that aren’t going to be effective for your child exactly. It leads to, you know, parents seeking out all these resources for their kids that just don’t land necessarily. Right. And so a lot of times what I tell parents is if we were to take all of that and what you know and what you’ve read,
and toss it out the window and just start to collect the data by just being quiet more often, being curious more often and listening to your child’s experience of the world and his or herself and you and the family system and school and friends and you name it, right? When we start to do that and when…
someone like you or I can work with that parent or that family in saying, what are the ways that we show up to create a foundation and environment where this child can show up, feel confident enough in themselves to show up, make mistakes and know they’re not gonna die because they made a mistake, right? Have successes and feel the weight of that individual
Mary (17:06.028)
achievement and that self-esteem and that self-efficacy, right? So it’s basically like helping parents get out of their own way. And, you know, their own way was created because of love, right? And very well-intentioned. But a lot of times it’s just like, how do we take the conceptual and put it into action in a way that gives you leverage with your child, builds your relationship with your child?
and shows them, trust you. I trust that you can do this. And if not, if you can’t do it alone, I’m here to help you.
Robert Trout (17:43.435)
Absolutely.
I think let’s kind of move this towards kind of closing out this concept of what are parents looking for because parents, you know, we’ve talked about the patterns of where it kind of begins, what they’re not looking for and then what they’re looking for because of what they missed. And then you get into the like, okay, let’s start throwing some things at this, but let’s actually talk about kind of the end stage, what parents are looking for when they start to figure this puzzle out. Okay, so this is.
for any parent listening, this is some of the most basic resources or patterns or strategies even that parents are looking for. And again, you may not have even considered some of this as a possibility. I would kick this off by starting about the number of times that we have found
solution oriented practices for kids. Okay. And this is where parents are like, he needs to go to therapy and figure this out. It’s like, no, no, no, no, back off. We have to dismantle. We have to break that belief. It’s like, it’s not about therapy. For a lot of kids, especially the younger ones, what we start seeing is that it’s all about relationship. So.
I would throw out as some of the most basic things that what parents are really looking for is strategic help in relationship with their kids. So this is where you get into forcing your kid. And I don’t mean like fighting tooth and nail. I want to be clear about this, but finding something that they have a level of interest in that you need to push them into it.
Robert Trout (19:33.909)
even though they’re saying I don’t want to, but you know they have a desire to learn something about it. And this is where we see so many kids then start to thrive because once they get that little push into theater, sports, dance, silks work, you know, acrobatics, whatever, where there are other kids similar to their age, very often, not always.
But more importantly, there are older influences. So, these are older adults that you do not have to agree with on everything. That’s not the point. Okay? This is about you getting your kid out in the world so that they’re not constantly in your home. Okay? So, we’re gonna start pushing them out. And parents are amazed what starts to happen when they actually put in the work to like…
this is gonna happen and I’m gonna go through the battle of having you actually do it.” But they start to see their kid, you know, get really interested in horseback riding or after school like, you know, trivia camp or, God, so many things that we see that little nudge grow into relationship with other humans that are older than them. And I say that because sometimes parents are like,
my god, that college student that they hang out with at Big Brother Big Sister Club is… I don’t… It’s like, no, no, stop, stop, stop. They’re choosing to spend time with someone older that has life experience and has made it to an older age and somehow has the time and heart to volunteer to work with kids. It’s like, I don’t care what they believe. It’s not about what they believe. Your kid needs to be influenced in multiple directions.
in order to learn and compensate and come up with language. And I mean, some kids develop better relationship with their parents if they disagree about something and learn to communicate that disagreement back and forth in healthy debate and conversation. Right? So this isn’t about finding your perfect match. This is about getting them out and pushed. So that’s the first thing that pops up to me. What about you?
Mary (21:48.9)
Well, I was going to just add on to that. Like the number one predictor of success in, you know, is just having a strong relationship with someone outside of the home. you know, in terms of things that you’re talking about, but also what I tell parents is like, they get to sometimes hear your opinions outside of the home from someone who’s not mom and dad. it’s like, mom and dad aren’t crazy or, you know, aren’t just assholes.
so there’s a benefit there too. And, you know, a lot of times I feel like we’re up against, know, they’re not professional enough or they don’t know enough about autism or they don’t know enough about this. And, and again, it’s really about relationship and your child feeling like they don’t have to change to, to be in front of someone. Right. And what a great thing to see it role modeled in an older adult. Yeah. Yeah.
Robert Trout (22:44.174)
Absolutely.
I’m going to say the next resourcing that always comes up for me that parents kind of overlook is work or internships. Guess what? You can be 14 and go work. And now sometimes you have to sign a form as the parent, et cetera, but you get them work where they work and they make money and they look at that and it corresponds to like, put in effort and I get rewarded in a way that feels good to me and I actually enjoy it all the way to internships where it’s like, I,
I get to hang out and do this thing I love with animals or fish or bikes or whatever it is. And that’s its own reward. It’s not even about the money, but you don’t have to wait until a kid is 18 and above to allow them that experience of their first job in whatever that might be all the way to just one example, a parent that, you know, the kid had to do their own shark tank thing to the parents and the parents bought them a lawnmower.
and they started their own lawn care business doing that. And it was extremely successful. And the parents felt supported because the kid had something to do after school, all summer, you know, whatever the process was as they went through. don’t put limitations on the possibility, would be the statement to what parents are looking for is a way for their kids to become engaged in everyday life. That’s what we’re really talking about here.
Mary (24:11.844)
Yeah.
Yeah, it’s just such a wonderful transition to see those kids who have experience outside of the home, whether it’s just volunteer work or whether that is a job that then, yeah, they start learning life skills, financial skills, those sorts of things from, and again, having feedback from an adult that is not their parents, right? Because they are.
having to meet expectations, do certain things they don’t wanna do necessarily, right? And yeah, getting that feedback outside of just the microcosm of the home in the broader world. And a lot of times what I’ve seen, especially in the past probably 10 years of practice is that more and more kids don’t have that real life experience and that feedback from people outside of their immediate family.
And then when they get to college or get to the internship or get to someplace where they’re interacting outside of their home, that first piece of feedback they get, they just crumble, right? And so this is really such a skill building for them as well, as well as just a time relief for parents. And I want to impress this because
I think a lot of times we focus on the child as the identified patient or the issue. And we forget that we as parents can also say, right, I have a need and sometimes my need is just to have an hour to myself or to have my kids not at home so that I can continue on with my day to day, which then helps the whole family function.
Robert Trout (26:07.34)
Yep. And I think that would be my closing thought to this subject for any parent that’s listening is to step more wholly into that and say, what parents are looking for is a function within the family system that allows everyone to feel energized, to feel heard and seen and have a sense of purpose, including you as the parent.
You need to take care of yourself. You need to step in and build in processes for your child that allow space for you to be human, not just mom or dad. You have to be human. You have to take care of your human needs. And very often that’s building the team that your kid works with so that you’re not taking on
all of the responsibility of the outcome. That is one of the most detrimental things you can do as a parent, is take it all on and say, I have to make this work. It’s not an I, it’s a we. Starting with you and your kid, then you and your kid and possibly partner or grandparents or family, and then all the way to the community itself. You have to build these practices in, and that’s where success is gonna come from.
So I think parents are looking for ways or strategies to make that happen. But again, a lot of parents haven’t ever been parents before, or they’ve never been in a situation that they’re in now with this kid. They might have had three more that were just figured it all out, but this one is not figuring it out. And you’re gonna have to adapt from what you think worked so well for the first three, but this one’s gonna need something different, and it’s time to change that.
Robert Trout (28:06.86)
In closing thoughts.
Mary (28:09.24)
Yeah, I think for me just a lot of parents don’t recognize the abundance of resources that are out there and they don’t realize what tools and skills and resources can actually make change. And that’s where having someone on board who can help them look at those patterns, those predictable behaviors, everyone’s needs, the family system’s needs and
you know, really look at what might start to create an environment that’s different and relationships that are different within the family and therefore more thriving of each individual in the family. And it’s just the joy that I find in this work so often, right, is that we kind of put all the puzzle pieces together and every now and then we got to shift it around or make some changes, right? But that we, yeah, we have the opportunity to help families do that.
Robert Trout (29:09.93)
Absolutely. And as always, come find us at parenttrainers.com. Come get some training, get some coaching from us and figure out how to build your plan that’s going to work for you and your family system to support your kid and yourself. We look forward to seeing you there.
